TOS V4 Beta PBEM

E

eric_A

Deity
Joined
Oct 17, 2003
Messages
3,227
Location
Ajax, Ontario
Player line up:
Japan - Sully
Allies (US, China, CW and Dutch) - WVCivnut
Communist Chinese - AI

Game has begun, Japan turn summary :

IJN Turn 1
POW and Renown Sunk by Air and Sea units
Malaysia
-2nd Ind Divisions KIA by land, air, and sea attacks
-AF Captured; 8th Aus Inf Div and Fighter KIA by 25th Army or Corps?
-Rangoon Captured; CW Inf and Biplane KIA by NI units

China
-Hong Kong Captured 2 CWInf KIA by NI and arty
-Paotow, Guerilla KIA north of city by Mongolian Cav
-Road destoryed North of Yewan by air units
-Road destroyed S of Hangkow

PI
-Airfield captured, US Militia and B17 KIA by SNLF
-Static Div KIA by SNLF forces. Hvy Arty captured
-Lt Tank redlined north of Manila by sea bombardment
-CW DD Tenedos sunk by I-Boat

PH
-2 BB's sunk by air units
-1 BB sunk by IBoat
-Several BBs with assorted HPs
-Lost 1 Kate

Sully
 
Eric,

I will be playing all the Allies. We are looking for bugs and such. We'll have a more serious game after the scenerio is finalized.

Civnut
 
USA:
  • Sub battles around Pearl -- sank 4 subs, lost 1 sub and 1 DD.
  • DD from Manilla ran into a Jap BB and sank it -- misclick I swear! :lol:
  • CA redlined a Jap CA near Davao but lost -- DD sank Jap fast transport.
  • Sank a sub near Cebu with a sub -- lost three subs.
Commonwealth:
  • Bombed jungle road north of Rangoon.
  • Shelled tank brigade north of Singapore to redline. Naval bombarded Army.
Netherlands:
  • Nothing to report. They are in a bad position as usual.
China:
  • Bombed inf. near Suchow and inf. on Alum. colony.
  • Two biggest cities are set for wealth and 0% research and entertainment -- yet still loosing -14 GPT.
 
PI Theater
-DD Peary Sunk by Naval Air west of PI
-SS West o fPI Sunk by DD...lost a DD
-Manilla Captured....Militia and Tank Brigade KIA by 14th Army
-SS SW of Manilla Sunk by DD but lost a Fast Transport
-Davao Captured by Paratroopers. Militia KIA but lost a Para
-DD JP Jones sunk S outh of Palau by DD
-PT NE of Davao Sunk by CL

BORNEO Theater
-Sarawak Captured by SNLF
-SS Sunk SW of Sarawak by DD

MALAYSIA Theater
-CA Exeter, DD Encounter, and Trans Sunk near Singapore by combination of air and naval units. Lost a SS.

MARIANAS IS
-Guam Captured...Militia KIA by SNLF

CHINA THEATER
-4 Guerillas KIA in Mongolia by Jap Cavalry
-CI Div East of Inchag KIA by air and land units. Betty shot down. Other C Inf Divs bombed by air and arty.

CENTRAL PACIFIC Theater
-SS South of Wake Sunk by CL after losing Fast Transport
-Wake Island Captured...Militia and P40 KIA by SNLF
-Tarawa Captured by SNLF

PEARL HARBOR Theater
-CLs Detroit and Helena, DD Farragut, DD Cassin, and PT Sunk by IJN Aircraft. Lost a Val. PH bombed..BB hit.

GPS to CW
Sully
 
Eric, Where would you wlike for us to document observations that we see as we are playing this game?? Here or in the TOS 4 main thread?

Sully
 
USA:
  • Sank two Jap BBs north of Pearl -- damaged a CA. Lost one DD.
Commonwealth:
  • Destroyed road on rubber north of Singapore. Shelled Jap Army.
  • Destroyed road north of Rangoon.
  • Bombed fortress brigade east of Hangchow.
  • Bombed a CA north of Palembang.
Dutch:
  • Sank a DD north of Menado.
  • Sank DD northwest of Ketapang - lost on DD.
China:
  • I noticed that the Japanese Aluminum colony north of Foochow does not have Aluminum under it. Is that right?
  • Destroyed roads near Shanghai and Suchow.
 
aksully said:
Eric, Where would you wlike for us to document observations that we see as we are playing this game?? Here or in the TOS 4 main thread?

Sully
Click to expand...

Sully:
Anything that looks like a bug post it in the completed scenarios
forum, otherwise you can post it here.
 
Sumatra
-AF Captured by Paratroopers..Militia KIA

Malaysia
-Singapore captured! CW loses B25, Fortress Brigade, Garrison, Flak and Heavy Arty captured. Attack consisted of Air and Naval Bombardment and attack by the 25th Army.

PI Area
-Cebu Captured by SNLF forces...Militia KIA
-West of Menado..US DD sunk by IJN AC

Pearl Harbor/Central Pacific
-Kido Butai exacts revenge for the loss of their 2 BBs last turn. BB Maryland, CA's North Hampton and New Orleans, and CL Raleigh Sunk by IJN AC.
-Air Units in PH damaged by air raid. IJN loses a Val and Kate.

East of Wake Island
-CV Lexington sunk by I Boat
-DD Maury sunk by Naval AC

New Guinea Area
-Rabual Captured by SNLF forces. Garrison KIA
-SS Sunk by CL after IJN loses a Fast Transport
-CL Perth sunk by I-Boat

China
-3 Guerillas killed in NW China. IJA loses a Inf unit.
-Near Paotow; 2 Guerillas, Fortress Div KIA. IJA loses a Cavalry unit.
-Near Chasha; CI NE of city KIA by 23rd Army, P40 Shot down by Betty, Betty shot down by Biplane.

GPS to CW

Sully
 
USA:
  • Sank CA northeast of Pearl with CL, damaged DD with bomber.
Commonwealth:
  • Sank fast transport south of Raubal with Heavy Cruiser.
  • Bombed fortress brigade east of Hangchow with bomber.
Dutch:
  • Nothing to report.
China:
  • Lost bomber to CAP near Hankow - bombed Division with bomber same location.
  • Destroyed road with a bomber north of Hankow.
 
Just wanted to share my thoughts on TOS4 after a couple of turns...

First I think the HOF size map makes TOS better to play. A great improvement over the TOS3 map. I think this is a major improvement over TOS working within the limitations and abilities of the C3C editor and engine.

Ship Values;
I would suggest leaving the IJN CAs, BBs, and CVs as is. I would however reduce the US CA's attack value to 10 while keeping the IJN CAs at 12. This would account for the clear superiority in night tactics and long lance torps throughout the war. I like the addition of the IJN CL. But it should have an attack of 8 to reflect its more and most often heavier main guns than IJN DDs. I'd like to see the initial DD OOB for US/Allied DDs be the 4 stacker. As it is now they have the exact values and that isn't correct historically. I would then add the Fletcher class DD for later build with an attack of 6. But IJN DDs should remain stronger than the Allies throughout the war. Same for CAs as they too had the Long Lance torps.

Ground Units; I feel the SNLFs are too weak. I would increase their attack value to 6 and make them all start out elite in experience. And I would make them Special Units which cannot be built and limited to the 12 specific units. I would then have a Marine unit that could be built and have an attack of 5 and NOTstart out Elite.
I like the setup in China now. I've had some contact with Jap Cavalry and guerillas. I like the guerillas movement of two and the cav being 3. But I would reduce the Guerillas from an attack value of 4 to 3 and change the cav from 3 to 4.

Air to Ship Attacks; I don't know..still think it takes a hellava lotta of air units to sink a capital ship. I think it would be worthwhile to increase Val and Kates bombardment by 1 and see how the results shake out.

Searching; I still think there's a place in this game for PBYs and Flying Boats for searching.

Heroic Epic...I think the Jap should start out with this. To reflect their experience with the war in China.

Misc; US starting forces in the PI seem under strength. Just seems to be too easy to conquer the island. Maybe adding Corregidor as a Coastal Fortress with an American Div and adding a Phillopino Div near Bataan.

Well hope this is usefull and perhaps CivNut will add his thoughts as well. We are just two turns in. There's lots of units to move about!!
Sully
 
aksully said:
Just wanted to share my thoughts on TOS4 after a couple of turns...

First I think the HOF size map makes TOS better to play. A great improvement over the TOS3 map. I think this is a major improvement over TOS working within the limitations and abilities of the C3C editor and engine.

Ship Values;
I would suggest leaving the IJN CAs, BBs, and CVs as is. I would however reduce the US CA's attack value to 10 while keeping the IJN CAs at 12. This would account for the clear superiority in night tactics and long lance torps throughout the war. I like the addition of the IJN CL. But it should have an attack of 8 to reflect its more and most often heavier main guns than IJN DDs. I'd like to see the initial DD OOB for US/Allied DDs be the 4 stacker. As it is now they have the exact values and that isn't correct historically. I would then add the Fletcher class DD for later build with an attack of 6. But IJN DDs should remain stronger than the Allies throughout the war. Same for CAs as they too had the Long Lance torps.

Ground Units; I feel the SNLFs are too weak. I would increase their attack value to 6 and make them all start out elite in experience. And I would make them Special Units which cannot be built and limited to the 12 specific units. I would then have a Marine unit that could be built and have an attack of 5 and NOTstart out Elite.
I like the setup in China now. I've had some contact with Jap Cavalry and guerillas. I like the guerillas movement of two and the cav being 3. But I would reduce the Guerillas from an attack value of 4 to 3 and change the cav from 3 to 4.

Air to Ship Attacks; I don't know..still think it takes a hellava lotta of air units to sink a capital ship. I think it would be worthwhile to increase Val and Kates bombardment by 1 and see how the results shake out.

Searching; I still think there's a place in this game for PBYs and Flying Boats for searching.

Heroic Epic...I think the Jap should start out with this. To reflect their experience with the war in China.

Misc; US starting forces in the PI seem under strength. Just seems to be too easy to conquer the island. Maybe adding Corregidor as a Coastal Fortress with an American Div and adding a Phillopino Div near Bataan.

Well hope this is usefull and perhaps CivNut will add his thoughts as well. We are just two turns in. There's lots of units to move about!!
Sully
Click to expand...

Sully:
DDs and CLs are the same units, they just have different names
for historical color.
1 DD unit = 4 DDs or 2CLs or 2DDS and 1 CL

The IJN DDs and CA all start off with much higher experience levels to
simulate better tactics and torpedoes. I think also giving them a higher
attack strength would over do it and unbalance the game.

SNLF units had only 800 to 900 men, giving them the same attack
strength as a 15000 man infantry division seems a bit much. They
will all be elite in the final release. They cannot be built but there
will be a wonder to autobuild them.

My problem with PBY recon aircraft is that they can't be intercepted
(or even shot down by flak!).

Yes, we may need to up the bombing strength for DBs and TBs.

I'm not even sure what the EPIC does!

There will be some changes to the Phillipines in the final release.
 
China
-Paotow Captured. Fort Div KIA by IJA Army. City autorazed.
-3 Guerillas KIA in northern China. Lost a IJA Cavalry Unit
-Road SW of Yenan bombed by IJAAF bombers
-SE of Ichang; 2 CInf Divs KIA by 23rd Army

PI AREA
-Puerto Princess AF Captured by NInf Div..Garrison KIA

SUMATRA
-Oil Colony Captured by IJA Para. NL MIlitia KIA.
-Palembang Bombed; units injured,

BORNEO/CELEBES SEAS AREA
-Ketapang Bombed; units injured
-SS sunk North of Tarakan AF by IJN CL
-SS West of Davoa Sunk by IJN CL
-Menado Bombed by IJAAF and IJN Ships; Units injured

RABUAL AREA
-CW CA sunk by IJN AC

HAWAIIAN ISLANDS AREA
-CV Saratoga, Fast Transport, and Transport sunk by IJN AC..No Losses
-DD Lawrence, Transport Sunk by IJN AC..No Losses

CENTRAL PACIFIC AREA East of WAKE ISLAND
-CA Astoria, DD Blue Sunk by IJN AC
-DD Ward Sunk by I-Boat

GPS to US
Sully
 
Followup Comments on this turn.

Should be 3 Dutch Inf Units located in Dutch Borneo at the onset of the war and two British units..one in NW Sarawak and one near Kuching.

There also seems to be a lack of workers to capture throughout the various regions. I don't know how that can be incorporated but I'll throw it out there.

Sully
 
DDs and CLs are the same units, they just have different names
for historical color.
1 DD unit = 4 DDs or 2CLs or 2DDS and 1 CL
Yup..Just think they should still be distinctive from DDs

The IJN DDs and CA all start off with much higher experience levels to
simulate better tactics and torpedoes. I think also giving them a higher
attack strength would over do it and unbalance the game.
Understand but that was the advantage they held throughout the war because of the quality of their night vision and the Long Lance Torpedo. Fact was that the IJN CA's and DD's were more effective in attacks against often superior Allied CA TF's throughout the war until late 1944 when the sheer volume of CVs overcame the advantage by sheer numbers. Also the Japanese Player has a lot of other prioriorities in building as new techs permit building of more advanced land, air, and sea based units.

SNLF units had only 800 to 900 men, giving them the same attack
strength as a 15000 man infantry division seems a bit much. They
will all be elite in the final release. They cannot be built but there
will be a wonder to autobuild them.
Understand...but most start off nearly 1500 at full strength. And were all in place at the start of the war. And at that time, were the most elite units the Japs had, and didn't build any more. Maybe a compromise would be to limit them to 10 units. With no further ability to build since they weren't.

My problem with PBY recon aircraft is that they can't be intercepted
(or even shot down by flak!).But they played such a big part in the Pacific war. The Alternative is that we must use limited combat assets to accomplish an end that the PBY/Float Plane served well. Much of the value of the little patches of sand on the map had to do with Searching by PBY and Float planes to locate enemy units before you were spotted. Anyhow...just my particular point of view.

Yes, we may need to up the bombing strength for DBs and TBs.
Agree

I'm not even sure what the EPIC does!
Increases the likelihood of a Military Leader created after the outcome of battle by elite units. The IJA had been fighting since 1939. The Japanese should start with this Small Wonder while the others should have to build it.

There will be some changes to the Phillipines in the final release.[/QUOTE]
Sounds good Eric! Just throwing out these tidbits for consideration by the Developer to consider. This is evolving into a fantastic Scenario!

Sully
 
aksully said:
DDs and CLs are the same units, they just have different names
for historical color.
1 DD unit = 4 DDs or 2CLs or 2DDS and 1 CL
Yup..Just think they should still be distinctive from DDs


I'm not even sure what the EPIC does!
Increases the likelihood of a Military Leader created after the outcome of battle by elite units. The IJA had been fighting since 1939. The Japanese should start with this Small Wonder while the others should have to build it.

Sully
Click to expand...

Sully:
I don't think you get it, THERE ARE NO CLs in the game, they are just
DD units that have been given the names of CLs.

I will remove the EPIC it is not required, Japan starts the game with
plenty of Corps and they can build more.
 
eric_A said:
Sully:
I don't think you get it, THERE ARE NO CLs in the game, they are just
DD units that have been given the names of CLs.

Eric, I do Get It. ;) Just sharing an opinion that this ship class does have a place in the scenario..IMHO. But it's your creation and you call the shots. And since you had seen clear to use the names..I merely suggested you add the class to the scenario. That's all.

I will remove the EPIC it is not required, Japan starts the game with
plenty of Corps and they can build more.
Click to expand...
Can never have too many Corps:)

BTW...Our game is on hold until Wednesday as Shane has been anyway.

Sully
 
USA:
  • Destroyed one CV east of Pearl with a CL. Lost my B-17 to flak.
Commonwealth:
  • Bombed fortress brigade east of Hangchow with bomber.
  • I noticed this turn that I have two BB Warspites (one starts on the southwest section and one in Vancouver)
Dutch:
  • Lost a sub attacking a DD near Menado. Sank said DD with a DD.
China:
  • Destroyed communist guerrila. Lost a division.
  • Lost a B-25 bombing the tank army near Changsha. Bombarded with two cannons both missed. Attacked with Chinese division army and lost -- attacked with division and tank army retreated with one HP.
 
Naval Battle Continues Near and Around Pearl Harbor...
-East of PH
--2 CL's and 2 DDs sunk by IJN Aircraft
-West of Pearl Harbor
--CV Enterprise sunk by I-Boat
--DDs Dewey and Crayton sunk by IJN AC and I-Boat

PH
-Bombed by IJN AC..lost a Val

China
-Lost a Zeke near Sian by P40
-Betty Shot down a Biplane

Hanchow
-2 CI SW of Hanchow KIA by Arty and NI Corps
-CI S of Hanchow KIA by Arty and NI Corps

Sumatra
-Near Palembang..DI, Flak KIA by Amphibious Attack by SNLF

Dutch Borneo Area
-Tarakan Airfield Captured by Amphib assault by SNLF..Dutch Garrison and Biplane destroyed

Menado
-Bmbarded by IJN Warships

Solomen Is Area
-CA Louisville NW of Rabual sunk by IJN & IJA Aircraft

Fight to the finish near Pearl seems to be coming to a head!! I have consistently under-estimated the various CL/DD units with different Ranges. In China...it is like WWI Trench Warfare. The days of quick Chinese defeats has been changed effectively in this revision. I notice that the Japanese player does not have the option of Renaming units?

GPS to US
Sully
 
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