I know the systems specs are not set yet for Civ 4 but I am buying either a MacBook or MacBook Pro this week. The MacBook has integrated graphics. How likely is it that it will be able to run Civ 4? Since I'm intending this computer to replace both my iBook and desktop computer (and a PC) I would opt for a MBP if the MacBook can not handle Civ 4.
Civ4 and the new MacBook
- Thread starter NoMan
- Start date
The MacBook uses the same Intel GMA950 graphics as the Mini. And Brad has said this regarding the Mini:
So I'd say you will probably be well-advised to get the MBP instead, unless Brad has an update to that statement.Brad Oliver said:
I should add that I have a 2 or 3 year old Dell that I'm also hoping to get rid of after I purchase the MacBook or MBP. That machine has integrated graphics and strained to run Civ 4. Then I upped the RAM to over 1 GB and it now does an adequate job of it. Would the same be true for the Mac version and the MacBook? That is, even with the integrated graphics, if I have enough system memory it would be ok?
Similar, I would imagine, and in the absence of any real data.
But if you're buying a new machine, do you really only want it to do an "adequate job" of running today's version of Civ4? I expect a Mac to give me at least four or five years of useful service, so I have never bought at the low end of the Mac product line. My current five year old G4 tower is around the end of its life now, and it's actually the graphics capability that is letting me down first, as it won't be able to run Civ4 and can't be upgraded to do so.
I would recommend you to get the Pro if you can possibly afford to, as the base level model will probably have to be replaced before its time in order to play Civ5 or whatever.
But if you're buying a new machine, do you really only want it to do an "adequate job" of running today's version of Civ4? I expect a Mac to give me at least four or five years of useful service, so I have never bought at the low end of the Mac product line. My current five year old G4 tower is around the end of its life now, and it's actually the graphics capability that is letting me down first, as it won't be able to run Civ4 and can't be upgraded to do so.
I would recommend you to get the Pro if you can possibly afford to, as the base level model will probably have to be replaced before its time in order to play Civ5 or whatever.
I'm in the same position as NoMan. In my case, though, I really like smaller laptops, and don't want to lug around a MBP, so it's get a new MacBook or try and eek some more life out of my 12" iBook until the new 13" Mac portables get some better graphics. (Maybe there's an 13" MBP somewhere on the Apple roadmap...)
If I do get a MB now, though, I'm willing to compromise, though, and turn off some of the eye candy in Civ IV if it still results in a playable game.... How likely will that be?
If I do get a MB now, though, I'm willing to compromise, though, and turn off some of the eye candy in Civ IV if it still results in a playable game.... How likely will that be?
I understand and agree with the point about not getting the bottom of the line. Howerver, it's not just that the MacBook is cheaper. It also has increased portability (i.e. I can actually open the lid in coach), increased battery life, and only uses 65 W so I can buy a power inverter that will actually work on a plane when I get to fly business class. So I think the MacBook is actually better at being a portable computer than the MBP. But obviously not as good as a desktop replacement.
The argument for extended useful lifetime is a good one. If it wasn't for Civ4 I would still buy a MacBook. But now I lean toward the MBP.
The argument for extended useful lifetime is a good one. If it wasn't for Civ4 I would still buy a MacBook. But now I lean toward the MBP.
I already did. My G4 Sawtooth is upgraded with a 1 GHz CPU and a Geforce 4MX graphics card. I run two 17" TFT screens off it, and it does everything I ask of it today. But it will be rendered obsolete by a $50 game within the next few months because the 4MX won't handle Civ4 - it only has 32 MBytes of video RAM. The CPU is probably marginal as well.benjaminz said:
The Sawtooth has a stunted AGP interface that cannot take a full AGP card. There are people who have fitted them, but it involves taking a hacksaw to a $200 card, and I'm not about to take that kind of risk. I'd rather put the $200 into a fund for a new Mac that'll take me forward into the brave new world of Intellimacs.
[EDIT] But I'll hang on until Apple gets the next chips out of Intel, I think. I don't need a portable, and I'm guessing the desktop game will really get interesting when Conroe emerges.
AlanH said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "stunted" but if you're talking about the slot being only a 2X AGP slot, there are still a couple of options for you to upgrade to. Mainly ATI's Radeon 9700 Pro and 9800 Pro Mac Editions. Both support 2X AGP and have 128MB of VRAM and would outpace the 4MX you have now. Plus (and MOST importantly) they'd be plenty good enough for CIV.
JoAT
Interesting, I hadn't found any higher spec products for the Sawtooth when I last searched. I guess it only serves to remind me of the value in buying an extendable Mac. Upping the graphics in that way in any MacBook would be impossible.
However, the 8000 option would cost at least $300 by the time I paid transatlantic shipping and import duty, so I don't see that as a viable investment to put into a five year old machine with an obsolescent CPU. If the only reason to buy it is to run Civ4 that would be a ridiculous price to pay for a game! I'd rather put it towards a shiny new Intel Mac, and reconfigure this one as a server.
However, the 8000 option would cost at least $300 by the time I paid transatlantic shipping and import duty, so I don't see that as a viable investment to put into a five year old machine with an obsolescent CPU. If the only reason to buy it is to run Civ4 that would be a ridiculous price to pay for a game! I'd rather put it towards a shiny new Intel Mac, and reconfigure this one as a server.
AlanH said:
True. The value equation of upgrading aging computers is sketchy business. In your case spending $300 on the Sawtooth at this point seems like its not the best use of your dollars (or pounds as it may be.) That said, seeing as neither of the 2 options I pointed out is available brand new anymore, you may want to search eBay UK or other places on that side of the pond for a deal.
Pulling this thread back toward the original post, I would also expect the MacBook to be a poor performer with CIV. While I am not a fan of Apple using the integrated intel graphics, I can understand using them in their low end laptop line. I don't like it, but I understand it.
What I still can't fathom is why they did it to the Mini though, other than thinking of their own bottom line...JoAT
I've solved my problem by finding an insanely good deal on a used 12" PB (1.5 GHz, the latest model before the switch). I'm getting it for quite a bit less than a MacBook. It only has 64 MB VRAM, but it's not shared, and the nVidia GeForce FX Go5200 card in it ought to at least meet the minimum requirements for Civ IV, and ought to do better than a MacBook would have.
Of course, buying a PPC in the midst of the Intel switch probably means that I won't be keeping this one for 3+ years like I kept my current iBook, but I'm willing to tolerate that to get what I want.
Getting the top-of-the line models and keeping them for a number of years is a valid strategy, but I've had success buying lower end equipment and trading up every year or two. I think I end up paying less than soemone who buys the top of the line, and keeping somewhat current in the process. To each his own, I guess....
Maybe now that C3C will play smoother for me, I'll play in a few GOTM's again....
Of course, buying a PPC in the midst of the Intel switch probably means that I won't be keeping this one for 3+ years like I kept my current iBook, but I'm willing to tolerate that to get what I want.
Getting the top-of-the line models and keeping them for a number of years is a valid strategy, but I've had success buying lower end equipment and trading up every year or two. I think I end up paying less than soemone who buys the top of the line, and keeping somewhat current in the process. To each his own, I guess....
Maybe now that C3C will play smoother for me, I'll play in a few GOTM's again....
Totalshock
Chieftain
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- May 24, 2006
- Messages
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Obviously I can't comment on how Civ IV for Mac will perform on the MacBook, but I can tell you this much... I picked up a 1.83 MacBook on Saturday, and by Sunday night had XP running under Bootcamp, and Civ IV running on XP. It performs pretty well. I turned everything up to maximum, and found that when I exited my first game it had decided to set things to a more realistic and achievable setting, which in this case was everything on medium.
So you're not gonna get the best of the best for graphics, but on medium, everything runs smoothly and snappily.
I wonder if popping in more than the stock 512 will make any difference in that regard.... hopefully I'll find out soon.
But, at least on that front, there is hope for Civ IV running on the MacBook.
So you're not gonna get the best of the best for graphics, but on medium, everything runs smoothly and snappily.
I wonder if popping in more than the stock 512 will make any difference in that regard.... hopefully I'll find out soon.
But, at least on that front, there is hope for Civ IV running on the MacBook.
Pharaohx
Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
Totalshock,
Please let us know when you up your MacBook RAM. I am very interested in your results.
Thanks
Please let us know when you up your MacBook RAM. I am very interested in your results.
Thanks
Totalshock said:
I purchased an MBPro partly due to the advice in this thread. Now that the system requirements are out it looks like that advice was very good. Thanks.
According to the Aspyr web site the release should be in 4 to 6 weeks. I'll be travelling with my MBP in June and will try the PC version with Boot Camp. I'll be purchasing the Mac version soon after it comes out.
According to the Aspyr web site the release should be in 4 to 6 weeks. I'll be travelling with my MBP in June and will try the PC version with Boot Camp. I'll be purchasing the Mac version soon after it comes out.
gfeier
King
So when I get Civ IV, which machine will it run worse on - a new MacBook which meets the CPU requirements but not the GPU or a five-year-old dual 800 Quicksilver with a GeForce3 card which pretty much meets the GPU requirements but not the CPU?
As you all probably know, when the MacBook (or Intel Mini) is running OS X, the graphics card is limited to using only 64 MB of memory. But rumor has it that when running XP using BootCamp, this limitation is removed and the chip can make use of more system memory if available. So, Civ IV may perform better under XP than under OS X on a MacBook!
I don't understand why Apple chose to limit the memory that the chip can use, and I hope someone comes out with a hack soon!
I don't understand why Apple chose to limit the memory that the chip can use, and I hope someone comes out with a hack soon!
ChiefSparkY
Warlord
I'm not sure that's true imadork regarding the graphics only being limited to 64MB - do you have a reference?
I've a 1.83Ghz MacBook on the way maxed out with 2GB of RAM. I still want to know if Civ 4 can be played at all on this configuration or if it actually REQUIRES a graphics card as listed at the Aspyr site. Surely Aspyr have tested this game on a MacBook by now - I'd love to hear from Brad on this.
You know, I hadn't intended to install BootCamp at all - but if Civ 4 will run in Windows on a MacBook but not in Mac OS X, I'm going to have to...
Gavin
I've a 1.83Ghz MacBook on the way maxed out with 2GB of RAM. I still want to know if Civ 4 can be played at all on this configuration or if it actually REQUIRES a graphics card as listed at the Aspyr site. Surely Aspyr have tested this game on a MacBook by now - I'd love to hear from Brad on this.
You know, I hadn't intended to install BootCamp at all - but if Civ 4 will run in Windows on a MacBook but not in Mac OS X, I'm going to have to...
Gavin
ChiefSparkY said:
When the Mac Mini came out, it was quite clear in the Apple documentation that 64MB (+16 MB for setup) was the most that the GMA950 would ever see. When the MacBook came out, there was no mention that anything had changed.
However, in looking up a reference for you, it seems that I'm either remembering something incorrectly, or Apple has changed their mind, so I'll retract that statement for now, until I find out what happened.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303718
Intel seems to think that chips in the 945 family (which the 950 is part of) are bad at Civ IV on the PC, due to low frame rate:
http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/intel945gm/sb/CS-021400.htm
Since they got that far, though, it probably means it's possible to play, right?
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