The ideal Communist society?

good idea? line item veto?


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Cheezy the Wiz

Socialist In A Hurry
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I got thinking on that communism thread: is there a way to have it work that we haven't thought of yet? Not that I'm condoning Communism, or saying the US needs to do this or anything, I'm just brainstorming.

So, up until now, Communist governments have been the following:

dictatorships
oligarchies
capitalist! (china cough cough)
atheistic

So, I figure that the ideal communist society would be religious, perhaps to the extent of a state religion, and would be democratically run.

Even better, how about the Roman Republican system? You've heard me rant about this system before. It seems to lend itself most to the idea, being a good compromise between a true democracy, which obviously could not hope to work in any modern nation bigger than Andorra, and the Federal Republican system with it's central power based in the exective branch; remember, we're shying away from centralized power.

Yes, it's true the consuls are an oligarchy of sorts, but hardly in the same ballpark as the communist oligarchies we've seen.

The idea of a state religion comes into play partly by the fact that all past communist nations have been atheist. Religion, and in particular, state religion, bring that idea of brotherly love and mutual respect into everyday life. The people have more of a reason to identify with oneanother, are more likely to want to help oneanother out, less likely to take advantage of oneanother, and can hold eachother morally accountable.

All this, combined with the American court system, would make for one hell of a communist country, don't you think? It would make it easier to practice something closer to true communism.

What do you guys think about this?
 
Okay, so how about some open-minded REAL criticism, instead of the naysaying? I didn't say I was a communist, but free thought is necisarry to progress as a society. Besides, if we somehow come up with something that works better than what we got, why not use it? Surely you don't think we have reached the acme of human capability?
 
Cheezy the Wiz said:
Okay, so how about some open-minded REAL criticism, instead of the naysaying? I didn't say I was a communist, but free thought is necisarry to progress as a society. Besides, if we somehow come up with something that works better than what we got, why not use it? Surely you don't think we have reached the acme of human capability?

I don't like the idea of state religion.

Oh, and no, we havn't reached the pinnacle of human capability, and we never will. More political and social freedom would help though.
 
Cheezy the Wiz said:
Okay, so how about some open-minded REAL criticism, instead of the naysaying? I didn't say I was a communist, but free thought is necisarry to progress as a society. Besides, if we somehow come up with something that works better than what we got, why not use it? Surely you don't think we have reached the acme of human capability?
Im just saying it sounds a lot like socialism and we have that. But the ideal communism can only be a capitalism, otherwise the economy will collapse. Even China knows this. Theyre becoming less and less communist as per the economy. The only ideal communism I can think of is Socialism. An ideal communism goes against the principles of communism.
 
Trajan12 said:
Im just saying it sounds a lot like socialism and we have that. But the ideal communism can only be a capitalism, otherwise the economy will collapse. Even China knows this. Theyre becoming less and less communist as per the economy. The only ideal communism I can think of is Socialism. An ideal communism goes against the principles of communism.
You seem to misunderstand my idea. This society of mine will practice true communism, not just public welfare, healthcare, and that sort of thing. Socialism and Communism are two different things. Socialism is a social policy (hence the word "social" in it), Communism is an economic policy. That's why communist nations can be deomocratic, and socialist nations can be capitalist. However, saying a Communist nation could only succeed as a captialist one is a very cynical and roundabout way of saying that communism can't work.
 
I don't think there's anything you can do to make it work; people simply don't like it. Even in China, where the Communist party is in charge, the people have worked toward capitalism...

Cheezy the Wiz said:
Why do you have to escape?

Don't you think you should be able to if you decide that you want to?
 
The communist society is most popular in areas where it is least likely to be successful, and least popular in areas where it is most likely to be successful.

Thus the catch-22.
 
Cheezy the Wiz said:
You seem to misunderstand my idea. This society of mine will practice true communism, not just public welfare, healthcare, and that sort of thing. Socialism and Communism are two different things. Socialism is a social policy (hence the word "social" in it), Communism is an economic policy. That's why communist nations can be deomocratic, and socialist nations can be capitalist. However, saying a Communist nation could only succeed as a captialist one is a very cynical and roundabout way of saying that communism can't work.

I'm confused...I thought that Socialism and Communism were both economic systems?
 
Irish Caesar said:
Don't you think you should be able to if you decide that you want to?
Yes, I do. I never said it was a closed society. Something like this won't work if the people in it don't want it to work, or don't like it. I think that's another reason why every communist society has failed thus far, because they were intent on forcing people into it.
 
Sorry, I will never support an anti-theistic government that supresses and persecutes religions and their followers. Plus I am against Communism anyway. :p
 
CivGeneral said:
Sorry, I will never support an anti-theistic government that supresses and persecutes religions and their followers. Plus I am against Communism anyway. :p

Yes, those evil Amish are out to get you, my pretty!
 
Cheezy the Wiz said:
You know that my society is RELIGIOUS, right?
But would YOUR society allow me to practace Roman Catholicism and Shintoism in peace without persecution?
 
CivGeneral said:
But would YOUR society allow me to practace Roman Catholicism and Shintoism in peace without persecution?

Here's the exact discussion we had before this thread:

Cheezy the Wiz said:
I've always wondered why Communist nations insist on being Atheist? I would think that religion would make communism easier to accept, and more likely to succeed.

Norseman2 said:
The only communist "nation" is the Amish, so I think you have made an excellent observation here. But, in time, atheists will go communist too. When capitalism fails, it will be inevitable.

So, presumably, we're discussing an Amish community. They would quite certainly not punish you for believing in Catholicism or Shintoism, though they might disagree with you.
 
Norseman2 said:
So, presumably, we're discussing an Amish community. They would quite certainly not punish you for believing in Catholicism or Shintoism, though they might disagree with you.
I hadn't exactly had the Amish in mind, I've never really thought about them as a communist society, although I guess that makes sense, now that I think about it.

But I explained why I think religion would be a good thing in a communist society in my OP. I don't whether a state religion, or just NOT state-forced atheism is the answer, indeed, that is one of the points of speculation in this thread: which is better?
 
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