FfH NES (Never Ending Story)?

TheJopa

Šumar
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Dec 29, 2005
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EDIT:
A game officially begun.
Turn 2
Orders please!

Our thread in NES subforum

Starting locations:


Map:
Spoiler :


Rules:
Spoiler :
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=69.
As far as I understood it is a series of forum games - combination of role-playing and a strategy. Is here anyone who has more experience in this or anyone who has interest in starting a FfH NES? If we could gather few players and game master I would like to try this. Basically everyone would pick his civ and then do his best to lead it to the glory by war and diplomacy, and also economy. We would have to develop some house rules, and also a game map. Game map shouldn't be too hard, I would accept the challenge of making one. But first, is here anyone who knows anything more about this?

NES FAQ




Resources:
Gold: +5 stability, mines in province give +4 gold instead of their normal benefits
Gems: +4 stability, mines in province give +4 gold instead of their normal benefits
Silk: +3 stability, farms in province give +4 gold instead of their normal benefits
Spices: +3 stability, farms in province give +3 gold instead of their normal benefits
Wheat: +2 stability, +5 commerce limit, farms in province increase comerce limit by additional 5
Livestock: +2 stability, +5 commerce limit, farms in province increase comerce limit by additional 5
Marble: -10% construction costs, mines in province give +2 gold and -10% construction costs reduction instead of their normal benefits
Copper: +5% army efficiency, mines in province give +1 gold and -15% construction costs reduction instead of their normal benefits
Iron: +10% army efficiency (obsoletes copper) mines in province give +1 gold and -15% construction costs reduction instead of their normal benefits
Mythril: +15% army efficiency (obsoletes iron) mines in province give +2 gold and -15% construction costs reduction instead of their normal benefits


Buildings
Spoiler :

City gives +5 Gold per turn
Buildings and improvements:
Village (province improvement): +3 gold per turn
Farm (province improvement): +1 gold per turn, increases commerce limit (Your province can earn max 20 gold, each farm improves this by +5), +1 stability
Mine (province improvement): +1 gold per turn, decreases building costs in province by 10%
Lumbermill (province improvement): +1 gold per turn, decreases building costs in province by 10% (req. province with forests and smelting)
Windmill (province improvement): +5 commerce limit, -5% building costs, +1 gold per turn (req. machinery)

(All province improvements take 1 turn to build and cost 10 gold for first, 20 for second, 30 for third and so on. Multiple versions of the same can be built), and you can build more than one per turn

Forge: Decreases building costs in province by 10%, slightly increases troop quality, costs 60 gold, takes 1 turn to build
Barracks: -20% recruitment costs for troops if all cities in empire have it, troops have slightly better quality, reduces upgrade costs, 80 gold, 1 turn, req. Warfare
Fishery: +5 commerce limit, +3 gold p/t, 30 gold, 1 turn, req. coastal
Port: Increases foreign trade yield by 10%, stacks with all ports in empire, +5 gold p/t, 150 gold, 3 turns, req. Sailing
Market: +3 gold p/t, additional 1 gold p/t per resource owned, increases foreign trade capacity, 50 gold, 1 turn, req. Trade
Library: -20% tech costs if every city in empire has it, 50 gold, 2 turns, req. Writing
Alchemy lab: -40% tech costs if every city in empire has it, 100 gold, 2 turns, req. Alchemy
Money changer: +4 gold p/t, increases foreign trade, 90 gold, 1 turn, req. Currency
Inn: +2 gold p/t, increased foreign trade, important for events, attracts mercenaries and adventurers, 75 gold, 2 turns, req. Caravans
Tavern: +3 gold p/t, less unrests, important for events, attracts mercenaries and adventurers, 75 gold, 2 turns, req. Caravans
Temple: +2 stability, converts population, indirect religious effects, half cost under theocracy, 120 gold, 3 turns, req. Priesthood
Herbalist: +5 commerce limit, less disease events, 40 gold, 1 turn, req. Herbalism
Courthouse: +10 stability if present in every city, -50% found city cost if present in every city, 150 gold, 2 turns, req. Code of Laws
Gambling house: +3 gold p/t, -1 stability, 80 gold, 2 turns, req. Currency
Tax Office: +1 gold p/t from villages in province, +1 gold p/t, -3 stability, 100 gold, 3 turns, req. Currency
Palisades: Better defense, 50 gold, 2 turns, no tech req.
Walls: Better defense, 100 gold, 3 turns, req. Masonry
Grand Walls: Better defense, 200 gold, 3 turns, req. Mathematics
Town watch: Extra militia troops when defending, 50 gold, 3 turns, req. Warfare
Dungeon: +1 stability, less war dissent, instability effects you less, 50 gold, 2 turns, req. Masonry
Theater: +4 stability, 150 gold, 2 turns
Most important, buildings affect events. You are less likely to get rebellion where you have herbalists and theaters than in underdeveloped town, even under low stability. Food from farm also helps. Also taverns and inns attract mercenaries and travelers, and even spies, and cities with dungeons quell dissenters better, as well as handle crooks.
Buildings that need to be present in every city have 3 levels: either they are present in every city, so that you get full benefit, or they are present in at least half cities, but not in every one, so you get half of their benefit, or they are present in less than one half of your cities, so you gain no benefit at all.
This is to make an incentive to keep down the number of cities and make a strategic decision – do I need one more city, to get extra commerce, or I'm better of small or more stable, so I'll put up a outpost or fort? This will also, I hope, encourage forts and outposts, and add more diversity, and also make it easier for me to keep track of all provinces


Spoiler :
Colonizing and expanding
You can expand your empire by one and only one province per turn.
The province you expand to must be adjacent to your territory.
There are two ways to expand. First is to build an outpost. Outpost claims a province for you, but you don't get any income. You do get resources, and you are allowed to build and expand fortifications in province. Cost of outpost is 50 gold and it takes 1 turn to build.
Second way is to build a city. City provides income (+5) and allows you to build infrastructure in city and in province. You are allowed to build two cities for free. Every city after them costs 200 gold, then 400, 600 and so on. It takes 2 turns to build a city, but first two free cities are built just for 1 turn.

Forts can be built in any province you own and can be expanded by one level for 100 gold for lvl.1, 200 for 2 and so on. If you want to, you can specify fort details, like against which province you want to guard better and so on.

You need sailing to colonize overseas! Transports carry troops overseas, one transport for one unit. Before compass, your ships must stay in province adjacent to province you own (this isn't so big limitation, as sea provinces are large and border many land provinces)


Troops
Light infantry regiment costs 50 gold
Reckon regiment cost 50
Heavy infantry and Archers cost 60
Light cavalry cost 70
Heavy Cavalry, Siege, Mages and Priests cost 80
Transport ship and galley cost 50
Frigate and Ship of the Line cost 100
Any troops you come up with will have their costs assigned. The cost does not depend on tech tier of unit (so axemen and macemen cost the same). Troops don't upgrade automaticaly, you have to request that by orders.
You are able to upkeep (5 + 2 per city) regiments. These cost you 1 gold per turn per regiment. Each troop after this costs you twice as much to recruit and to upkeep. If you exceed this limit by more than double, each next unit costs you three times as much to recruit and to upkeep.
Troops can be grouped to armies. There is no hard limit on how many regiments can be in but keep in mind you will lose efficiency if they are too big (10 is optimal, 20 probably too big). Troops move 1 province per turn, heavy and light cavalry can move three but only if they are not accompanied by other slower troops.


When training armies, specify where you want them deployed, and how do you want them grouped. Groups of more than one regiment that move and fight as one will be called Armies or Army Groups. You can pick up a name for each group or I'll assign generic name. This is important as I'll use these names to manage armies (So when you say 'move Red Banner Army from X to Y' I know what I need to do.)

Keep in mind that other players do not know where are your troops or what do you have. They also don't know where are your buildings. You are free to give false informations. Bribery, conspiracies and trickstery concerning this are more than welcome. You can request espionage for a gold to find this out, though.


Techs
Spoiler :
Techs
Tier 1
Masonry (Allows Walls, Allows Dungeon)
Hunting (Allows Hunter)
Trade (Allows Market)
Writing (Allows Library)
Mining (Allows Mines, can see all mined resources and use Gold, Gems, Marble)
Warfare (Allows Barracks, Allows Town Watch, Allows Conquest economy)
Fishing (Allows Fishery)
Mysticism (Allows sending disciples)
Arts (+3 stability when researched)
Agriculture (Allows Agriculture economy, can use farmed resources)

Tier 2
Smelting (Allows Forge, Allows Lumbermill) (Req. Mining)
Bronze Working (Allows Bronze resource, Allows Axemen, Allows Swordsmen, Allows Military State labor) (Req. Smelting)
Horseback Riding (Allows Horseman) (Req. Warfare or Trade)
Priesthood (Allows Priests, Allows Temples) (Req. Mysticism)
Code of Laws (Allows Courthouse, Allows Caste System labor) (Req. Writing)
Sailing (Allows Transport, Galleon, Allows Port) (Req. Fishing)
Herbalism (Allows Herbalist, makes assassination attempts more likely to succeed) (Req. Hunting or Agriculture)
Drama (Allows Teathers, +5 stability when researched) (Req. Arts)
Mathematics (Allows Forts, Allows Catapults, Allows Grand Walls, Allows Mercantilism economy) (Req. Writing)
Knowledge of Ether (Allows Adepts) (Req. Mysticism or Writing)
Tracking (Boosts Hunters) (Req. Hunting)
Caravans (Allows Inn, Allows Tavern, Allows Foreign Trade economy) (Req. Trade)
Archery (Allows Archer) (Req. Hunting or Warfare)

Tier 3
Feudalism (Allows Serfdom labor) (Req. Code of Laws)
Iron Working (Allows Iron resource, Allows Macemen, Allows Longswordmen) (Req. Bronze Working)
Light Cavalry (Allows Light Cavalry) (Req. Horseback Riding)
Heavy Cavalry (Allows Heavy Cavalry) (Req. Horseback Riding)
Machinery (Allows Windmills, Allows Trebuchets, Allows Crossbow) (Req. Mathematics)
Compass (Allows ships to travel to seas adjacent to your provinces, allows Ship of the Line, Frigate) (Req. Sailing)
Alchemy (Allows Alchemy Lab, Mages more potent) (Req. Knowledge of Ether or Herbalism)
Currency (Allows Money Changer, Allows Gambling House, Allows Tax Office) (Req. Mathematics)
Sorcery (Allows Mages) (Req. Knowledge of Ether)
Feral Bond (Allows Rangers) (Req. Tracking)
Religious Law (Religion and priests more potent) (Req. Priesthood)


Tier 4
Armored Cavalry (Allows Knights) (Req. Heavy Cavalry)
Stirrups (Allows Horse Archers) (Req. Light Cavalry)
Commune with Nature (Allows Beastmaster) (Req. Feral Bond)
Strength of Will (Allows Archmages) (Req. Sorcery)
Divine Contact (Allows High Priests) (Req. Religious Law)
Rage (Allows Berserkers) (Req. Iron Working)
Mithril Weapons (Allows Phalanx, Allows Mithril resource) (Req. Iron Working)
Blasting Powder (Allows Cannons, Allows Arquebus) (Req. Machinery)


My idea is that to research next tier you need to research at least half of current tier techs. Also, Tier 1 techs take 1 turn to research, Tier 2 take 3 turns, Tier 3 take 5 turns and Tier 4 take 7 turns. I might review that later. Also, Tier 1 techs cost 100 gold, Tier 2 300, Tier 3 500 and Tier 4 700.

You can trade techs. Keep in mind that after you agree to buy a tech you still need to wait half as many turns as it would take to research it (to a minimum of 1) (it takes time to apply tech in society)
You can begin researching only one tech per turn, but if you have tech being researched or bought you can start researching next one. As with buildings, you always pay costs up front, not per turn.

Troops
Light Infantry (Cheap early on, later on quick and mobile, good at attacking cities)
Militia/Peasants->Swordsmen->Longswordmen->Berserker
Heavy Infantry (Good against Light Infantry, Light Cavalry)
/->Axemen->Macemen->Phalanx
Light Cavalry (Good against Archers, small unprotected units like priests, routing units)
Horsemen->Light Cavalry->Horse Archer
Heavy Cavalry (Good against almost everything, especially on offensive, slightly vulnerable to Heavy Infantry of Horse Archers )
Horsemen->Heavy Cavalry->Knights
Archers (Good against Heavy Infantry)
Archer->Crossbowmen->Arquebus
Siege (Against fortified targets and massive stacks)
Catapult->Trebuchet->Cannon
Mages (Cast Spells, spheres can be learnt at cost)
Adept->Mage->Archmage
Priests (Cast Spells)
Priests->High Priests
Recon (Good against heavy troops, mages, priests, good in forests, improve efficiency of all other troops. Note that there is a gap between Hunters and Rangers- That is because Hunters get improved by Tracking at no cost)
Hunters->Rangers->Beastmasters

The unit list is just a basic overlay. Always have this in mind. Every time you figure out some nice unit, you tell me what it does and I'll try to determine the fair cost. You want Copper or Iron golem? Or Stone golem or Clay golem? You want to field a regiment of Bears or Paladins? All are available. Just point out what do you expect from them (Golems could be stronger at taking cities and wouldn't suffer from bad morale, but slow, bears weak against reckon but have strong charge...)
Main unit scheme will still be used as I'll try to put new units in standard groups. So Golems would likely be like heavy infantry, bears heavy cavalry, paladins light or heavy infantry (depending on what you want from them) etc.


Applications:
Spoiler :


Name: Tyrs
Civilization: Svartalfar
Starting location: 56
Civ Leader Name: Faeryl Viconia
Religion: Fellowship of the Leaves
Government: Aristocratic Monarchy
Cultural Values: Education/Consumption
Economy: Barter
Labor: Tribalism
Stability: 100

Name: merciary
Civilization: Luchuirp
Starting location: 38
Civ Leader Name: Valthic Dellagg
Religion: Dual worship, Runes is the state religion but many (especially the craftsmen) also pray to Nantosuelta
Government: City States
Cultural Values: Education/Nationhood
Economy: Barter
Labor: Tribalism
Stability: 100
Description:
While Beeri Bawl was the face of the Luchuirp and Garrim Gyr was looking for magical ways to lead the Luchuirp to glory there was yet another dwarf who played a vital roll in the rise of the Luchuirp. While Beeri Bawl was held captive and Garrim Gyr was in his studies Valthic Dellagg, a member of a family of sculptors that can trace their lines back to the Age of Magic, rose through the bureaucratic ranks to one of the heads of the Luchuirp government. He is seen as the representative of the large class of craftsmen that populate the Luchuirp nation. While not the true "leader" of the Luchuirp he gives his advice and opinion on every major decision and is the one who meets with the foreign dignitaries to discuss the basic agreements before the heads of state make the agreement.

Name: Abculatter_2
Civilization: Infernals
Starting location: Once I am summoned I will chose one that isn't occupied
Civ Leader Name: Hyborem, Lord of the Balors
Religion: The Ashen veil and Agares, perhaps the other fallen gods as minors
Government: Absolute monarchy
Cultural Values: Power/Corruption
Economy: I'll chose one based on the techs I start with
Labor: Slavery
History: As the final incantation were completed, a flash and a crack rocked the fallen temple. The earth in the center of the summoning circles cracked open and withered, unholy flames rising from the depths. A large, blood-red hand grabbed the edges of the gaping hole, the very air becoming corrupted by it's mere presence. A gigantic blood-red demon burst forth, letting out a blood-curdling howl. A feeling hopelessness, despair and fear washed over the city's occupancy and people throughout Erebus felt a disturbance. Thus began Erebus's transformation to hell.

Name: LDiCesare
Civilization: Khazad
Starting location: 10
Civ Leader Name: Kandros Fir
Religion: Runes of Kilmorph
Government: Aristocratic Republic
Cultural Values: Consumption/Labor
Economy: Barter
Labor: Tribalism
Stability: 100
Description: Khazad government is a bit unique - their leaders are elected, but in a such a way that those with more wealth have more power on elections. It is not unusual that few prominent figures have more votes than entire cities.

Kandros Fir had led the Khazad out of the underhome. Because of his different with his former friend, King Arturus Thorne, Kandros convinced the dwarves that new land ment new rules, and had them adopt the Khazad Republic. Kandros was naturally elected a leader, thanks to the gold he had been the first to find outdoors. Gold was even better on the surface than below, as it shone even more under sunlight than at torchlight. Now, all Kandros had to do to retain power was to make sure he had more gold than his rival Arturus, or any other dwarf out there.

Name: Loki
Civilization: Balseraphs
Starting location: 4
Civ Leader Name: Perpentach
Religion: Octopus Overlords
Government: Monarchy led by God King
Cultural Values: Religion/Liberty
Economy: Barter
Labor: Tribalism
Stability: 100

Name: Thomas.berubeg
Civilization: Amurites
Starting location: 32
Civ Leader Name: Thomas The Casswallen
Religion: Emyrs
Government: Aristocratic Monarchy
Cultural Values: Knowledge/Power
Economy: Barter
Labor: Tribalism
Stability: 100
History: Dain was, for a time, the most powerful of the Amurite mages. But Power breeds envy, and envy, in the right mind, usually leads to a change in rulership. And so, Thomas, envoking the right of all of the Magical order, challenged Dain the Caswallen to a great Magical Duel. Dain would, normally, have no problem defeating even a first level mage like Thomas... but Thomas had called on greater forces. The secret teachings of Ceridwen had given Thomas enough power to destroy Dain... but at what cost?

Name: Algeroth
Civilization: Kuriotates
Starting location: 19
Civ Leader Name: Cardith Lorda
Religion: Non State Religion/Pluralism
Government: God King
Cultural Values: Liberty/Social Order
Economy: Barter
Labor: Tribalism
Stability: 100
Description: Kuriotates currently have no official state religion. There are many minor cults but no Ashen Veil presence at this moment.
Name: arcticnightwolf
Civilization: Grigori
Starting location: 22
Civ Leader Name: Cassiel
Religion: N/A (agnostic)
Government: Monarchy
Cultural Values: Economy/Education
Economy: Barter
Labor: Tribalism
Stability: 100
 
I don't have the time to Run a NES, but i'de be happy to play one (dibs on amurites or Sheim)

You could post a thread in the NESing forum asking for one (or in forum Games... maybe someone would be willing to run a FFH LZnes)
 
I've never played an NES, but I'd give a FFH one a shot.
 
...Or if you don't have the time for all the details of an NES you could come here like Thomas said. We used to have to FFH DnD like games and we have NOTW which are mafia games based off of FFH. The next one is currently on life support though.
 
Well I could use my time at work (heh love my job) to look at other NES and figure out how to lead one and set up the rules...
 
oh, please do!

Ok, I think I have a basic map. The basic outlay is:

  • Map is divided to provinces. Players choose their civ and their starting location - single province.
  • Other provinces are empty - uninhabited and/or with varying amount of barbarian (orcish) activity
  • You can add a province to your empire by building an outpost in it. This costs a certain amount of gold and only neighboring and uninhabited provinces can be claimed this way. Maintaining an outpost costs 1 gold per turn.
  • You can also colonize province later on by founding a city inside. This costs more than building an outpost and takes more time, but you need to build a city to actually get income from the province. You want as much cities as possible, as soon as you have gold. Cost of founding cities increases with each next city, so think carefully and plan ahead.
  • Single province can have only one single city, simple as that, but you can invest gold to develop a province - build surrounding villages and towns and get more income, develop farms, mines etc. (but this I will detail later on)
  • Every province will produce some resource that will be tradeable. To make things less complicated, it will probably be along lines: 'silk: +2% stability per turn' or 'wheat: +5% pop. growth per turn' or simply boost trade income.
  • Aside from provinces, Cities can also be upgraded with buildings like markets, monuments, walls... I will try to stay clear of boring '+1 gold' buildings and emphasize on special aspects of the buildings - like allowing extra troops, increasing stability...
  • Main difference is that countryside is developed for gold income per turn and resources which can be traded, and cities for special benefits - but you will have to handle both. Also, countryside is much more likely to be pillaged in war, while your cities are pretty much safe (until they fall and you lose the entire province)
  • Along with economy, political issues will be important, and cunning will be necessary.
  • War will be a necessary evil, something that unfortunately can not be avoided, and extension of politics, but much less emphasized than political plots and diplomacy.
  • Troops will be divided into armies, that are stationed in provinces. Think risk. Armies can move 1 province per turn.
  • Battles are resolved by GM-that would be me unless someone with more experience desires to take the honor :) Writing a good background story and a bit of luck is what it takes to win.
  • I'd also like to add a bit of exploration elements, but I'll see.
  • Of course, most important thing: projects and wonders. You say what it does, as always good background story is important, and then GM determines the cost. Want to do that Elegy of Sheaim? Want to overthrow your King and set up Republic? Want to expand the city so much that it becomes a City of Thousand Slums? Use fire mana to burn forests in province an improve farming? Found a religion? Spread false rumors about god abandoning the Malakim? Sign a pact of Nilhorn? Quell all rebellions? Dungeon peasants before they even start them? Start a grand carnival as a Balseraph? Burn the Pyre of Seraphic? Possibilities are endless.
  • Also expect a lots of random events. These would also depend on how you play.
 
A basis would be gold income gained from cities and from trade. It would add to treasury. You could use it to improve economy, research, raise army and many other things.
Other parameters would be:
Government - All familiar ones, each will have pros and cons, though they will differ even further as you play - are everyone allowed to vote in new Republic or only wealthy?
Cultural Values - Here you can choose TWO values - primary and secondary. These will effect gameplay significantly, especially by events.
Labor, Economy, Compassion, Education - With different benefits.
Stability - from Collapsing and Very Unstable to Very Stable. Perhaps in percentiles.
Corruption - I'd like to represent this as well, Tough less directly - from very low to very high, it'd stop civs from growing too powerful.
Research - Tech can be researched, of course, for different benefits.
Religion - A must.
Military - You raise your troops regiment by regiment, from Warriors to Knights. Then deploy them on map. Mages will play important role, and be able to do different stuff.
Unrest/Unhappiness - While for most time Stability would generally represent this, sometimes some specific town might rebel for specific reasons, or a specific group under specific condition. Perhaps merchants of the Bannor are unhappy with the new Theocracy? Aristocrats of Naggarond with new Republic?
 
these will all be Fall From Heaven civs, right?

(i mean, Fall further or not?)

either way, it makes no difference to me... i've got the Amurites.
 
I'm in, I call the Svartalfar.
 
Can I be infernals? Perhaps we could have special rules for infernals and mercurians, where they must "convince" another to invite them into the world with pacts and deals.
 
I'm not sure how to represent the Infernals. I think that it's best to do it as in FfH - once they are summoned (latter on in the game) a player will be allowed to play as them. If you want to, you could play some other civ until then.

Right now I'm most concerned about balancing. I don't want to make one or other option too powerful. I'll set up a tech tree to begin with.
 
What about some impassable mountain ranges like you can see using Creation mapscript (renamed Erebus in 0.33 if I read well). Not as many as in the script, but a few ones?
I might be interested as the Khazad, but I'm not sure I can commit time to it yet (I'll proabbaly be too busy next week)
 
I call the Luchuirp.
 
Did someone say Never Ending Story? Now I have that song stuck in my head.
 
I'd like to play (as the Balseraphs), but I don't really understand how it would work. Do you have any links to a non-FfH NES/could you explain how this one would differ?
 
Here's a link for the entire NES forum. Essentially you control a nation in which your goal is to conquer the ,or some other victory condition. Every turn you send in orders for where you want to expand, research, move armies, build things, etc. But the amount of what you can do is limited by your amount of gold. This is just a rough outline for any NES or Lazy-NES.
 
I'd like to join (as Kuriotates), but can somebody write example of "order"s?? I cant imagine, how do you write commands for x cities, y units, z workers ...
 
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