Raging Barbs?

blitzkrieg1980

Octobrist
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What's the deal with this setting? Doesn't it make the game really hard? I mean, won't the AI increase their military? Won't I have to belay workers for more warriors/axes/chariots?

Or does it make it easier (quick Great Wall grab)? Or is it more fun?

I ask b/c I've been tempted to try it out, but I have enough of a time dealing with regular barbs (ie losing scouts and surprise groups of archers popping up) and I would think it would make the beginning game unbearable.

Any thoughts or tips (so I can give it a try on Terra Map)?
 
I used to play with it on, back when I used to play normal speed on prince level. It made the game harder, but not unbearable. You have to build more units earlier, send more units out fogbusting, which costs more maintenance which affects your economy, etc.

Then when I started playing monarch/marathon, I had a few games where it was just ridiculous. My fogbusters were quickly overwhelmed and my cities were being attacked by 1-2 barbs per turn. I don't think I got past 2 cities. I don't know if it was another example of things not scaling properly or I was just unlucky, but I turned it off and haven't bothered with it since.
 
There are pros and cons to raging barbs.

Doesn't it make the game really hard?
I wouldn't say that, it just means you aren't allowed to run minimal military at any time. I find it usually keeps people's power charts higher than say if they were turned off.

I mean, won't the AI increase their military?
I usually mix this with Agg AI as it will help them know they need to spam units more than usual to capitalize on this.

Won't I have to belay workers for more warriors/axes/chariots?
I would say it adds an emphasis on the use of slavery. But if you can get a few good places around your territory to fight them off, you don't need too much military. (This is common enough to not be called a rare circumstance.) Use hills, rivers, and peaks for defensive positioning as normal.

Or does it make it easier (quick Great Wall grab)? Or is it more fun?
I would say yes to both. But honestly, depending on map size, the GW can obsolete pretty early. (I mean once the land is settled.) I have found a couple games where I was getting plowed by barbs and the GW saved my butt and put me in a much stronger position. But those times are rare and usually a result of something else I did in combination with pulling off the GW in time. If you are planning to rush and can somehow work in the GW without slowing your rush, it rocks. What is better than the no barbs aspect of the GW is the GG emergence in your borders. That lasts for a long time and if you play off of it right can be very rewarding. Imperialistic + GW = fun.


I have still yet to play the Terra map, but it seems that it would play different than raging barbs on say tectonics. But it is a more controlled environment which may be why you are using it.

Any thoughts or tips
Do an axe rush. If you pop HBR from a hut, do a HA rush. Or mix em. If all you have is horses, just use chariots as a strong border patrol army. Prepare 2-3 Chariots to guard each future city location. (As you build the settler) Then bring an archer from somewhere to the new city. Rinse and repeat as you expand. (Up to you if you want to make more chariots or use the ones you already have and backfill with better city defenders.) I would use C1, shock, C2 for the chariots to give them some effort when swords show up. But if you dont have copper, prioritize iron fairly heavy. Same rules apply to HA's and axes for border patrol even while your rush is going on.

The cool thing about raging barbs is sometimes they spawn a city right where you wanted one - or close enough. But the AI is out hunting these cities too if you set Agg AI. 1 or 2 will also probably die in the beginning.

EDIT: What difficulty are you gonna play on?
EDIT 2: I don't like doing chariot rushes unless I am Egypt or Persia. So some of this is also subject to what civ you play as.
 
What's the deal with this setting? Doesn't it make the game really hard? I mean, won't the AI increase their military? Won't I have to belay workers for more warriors/axes/chariots?

Or does it make it easier (quick Great Wall grab)?

Probably does, but this effect may not be so powerful after all. Seems like it depends lot of if AI has an acces to bronze or horses. Resourceless AI can be totally beated by RB, having only couple of 1-2-size cities doing nothing but whipping archers against barb-axes. But if AI has resources, raging barbs seems not to be hurting it so much.

Or is it more fun?

I think barbarians are extremely annoying, and raging setting is multiplying this effect. But maybe someone thinks they are fun. ;)
 
Raging Barbs are particularly useful on Terra map. They will usually have Longbows and Maces by the time the New World is discovered, which will easily hold off AI attackers for quite a while. Which leaves a lot of Barb cities for you to claim with advanced troops [Grens and Cannons do great, Trebs and Knights okay].

Because of the above, you should concentrate on settling your own New World cities first, and regard capturing barb cities as backfill for later. If you have a spare GArtist, bring him along to culture bomb a new central city. That plus the barb cities can effectively make one half of the New World unavailable to the AI.

One thing to watch is barb Galleys, they are a real pain early on, often appearing in pairs. I've found single Triremes to be quite vulnerable, so now I deploy them in pairs. It's not a waste, as you'll want to upgrade Triremes to Caravels later to circum-navigate first--that's a big deal on Terra.

The principal defense against raging barbs is fog-busting--especially if you lack metals, get Archers out there quickly. Stopping them appearing is much more cost-effective than repelling waves of them. They also guarantee you an early Heroic Epic, if you haven't had an early war.
 
I like raging barbarians. It keeps me on my toes, even though I have lost one game to them due to inadequate military.

Also, in the game I'm playing now, I know one civ that has been destroyed by the raging barbarians. I have also seen two civs die early in my previous game.

What I find to be fun is going into the the general info .xml file and changing the maximum experience from 5/10 for animals/barbariams to 100/100. With this, in my second to last game and my last game I have managed to get a 100+ exp chariot (which was later upgraded to knight and then early tank).
 
If you want craziness, allow barbs to have mounts. (Except the chariot - you will die fast probably. If you think axes come early...)
 
Thanks all for the tips! I think I'll just stay away from raging barbs, though. It sounds like too much for me right now. :)
 
I started a few games with raging barbs on Noble and I haven't found it to be particularly difficult. There seems to be ample time to get a few warriors out there patrolling your borders, and if you're lucky to get horses right off, chariots will wipe up barbs like nothing else. You mainly just have to lure barb into attacking you in forests. It is a little extra fun during that relatively boring initial expansion time where you're just hitting "enter, enter, enter, enter" waiting for stuff to build. It does go slower, that's for sure. Maybe on epic or marathon things are trickier (and more tedious)

Something I did notice is that other civs seems to spam a lot more military with raging barbs on. So while the barbs didn't get me, other civs did.
 
How do that, delete the unit/unitclass from CIVinfo's, within the Barbarian Civ's units?

Yep. I have been tinkering with allowing barbs as many units as I can without it being rediculous. I have had barb elephants and catapults show up in the middle ages though. :eek:
 
Yep. I have been tinkering with allowing barbs as many units as I can without it being rediculous.
Great! I always thought barbs stopping at rifleman:thumbsdown: stunk, & the idea of barbs on horses is, well Conan rode a horse!:D:goodjob:
I have had barb elephants and catapults show up in the middle ages though. :eek:
Thats the coolest thing I've heard about barbs in a while, wondering how crazy it will be with the Barbarian Alliance Mod!!:king::drool::wow:
 
That would be pretty cool. At first I thought that mod would allow you to make peace with barbs. (Which I think would be a cool idea -but tricky to implement right IMO.) But it still looks cool. Allowing the barbs most ancient units though does spice up the game. Real pirate ships show up, barb spears can halt or throw a kink in your cavalry rush, spears are mandatory units , etc. This evening I will post which units I have enabled for barb usage.
I have even been considering turning off Global Warming and allowing them ICBMs. :D
 
mod would allow you to make peace with barbs. (Which I think would be a cool idea -but tricky to implement right IMO.)
The mod has a Permanent Alliance with the Barb civs, & it's now set up where there is automatic open borders.

Yes I'm interested on what units you have enabled.

This here confuses me under the Barb Civ xml:
Spoiler :
<Unit>
<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_SETTLER</UnitClassType>
<UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
</Unit>
<Unit>
<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_SCOUT</UnitClassType>
<UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
</Unit>
<Unit>
<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_EXPLORER</UnitClassType>
<UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
</Unit>
Isn't the Barb civ able to build settlers?, or do the Barb Cities just 'spawn'?
 
Yeah they just spawn. I left all units like that off as well. Because I like having the barbs be insanely militaristic.
I actually have some time here now.

SETTLER
SCOUT
EXPLORER
MISSIONARIES
EXECUTIVES
GREAT_PEOPLE
CHARIOT
MARINE
MECHANIZED_INFANTRY
KNIGHT
MODERN_ARMOR
MOBILE_ARTILLERY
IRONCLAD
SHIP_OF_THE_LINE
STEALTH_DESTROYER
MISSILE_CRUISER
BATTLESHIP
SUBMARINE
ATTACK_SUBMARINE
CARRIER
AIRSHIP
JET_FIGHTER
STEALTH_BOMBER
ICBM


Is what they aren't allowed. I kept these off limits because I figure these are things that would be hard to come by without a national economy. Knights is a little questionable IMO but they get war elephants and pikes and I feel knights are somewhat of a national unit than something based on equiptment. The chariot simply because they show up as soon as barbs do. No easing in with archers and warriors.
 
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