HOF III January/February Gauntlet

In the discussion thread for the last gauntlet, Spoonwood suggested a Sid level game. Pacioli was keen to have a go but no particular mapsize/vc was decided upon. Anybody care to pick up a particular suggestion or make another. In case you missed Spoonwoood's post, here it is:

Spoonwood said:

Does anyone want to play a Sid level game for Jan/Feb? Or would that perhaps come as a little "over the heads" of some of newer HoF players? I've started thinking about a Large or Huge Sid spaceship run. Though maybe something like a Sid Small Diplomatic or Sid Small 20k would come as better for the community, as inter-turn time can get bad for bigger sized Sid maps. Thoughts? Anyone else have something in mind?

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I'll fill in the rest when you've decided.

Level: Tiny
Mapsize: Sid
Victory Condition: Spaceship

Please submit your games by February 15th. Good luck to all competitors.

Suggest tiny, Sid, spaceship.

Tiny or small. At this level, I'll have a tough time with any vc so I'll let you choose my poison.

What about your preference Tone?

Spoonwood said:

What about your preference Tone?

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I really can't commit to playing so I keep out of this. If I get the time I'll submit a game of course but I've only managed 6 games in the last year.

How about we go with ignas' suggestion?

Alright let's do it. For vets let's take down Moonsinger's 1440 AD Aztec date, and for newer players let's at least get them some Sid experience if not a Sid victory.

Edit: Do we care that Delta was also a Tiny Sid SS game? I wonder if it's tricker to find extra resources/luxuries on a tiny map than a small one or a standard one. Then again, even if so, games go faster.

OK. Post #1 adapted.

Well, I'll give it a shot. I don't seriously expect to get a win out of it, though. I will be playing to win, not to win quickly. The only time I gave Sid a try, I think, was COTM 43, and the dice were loaded strongly in our favor. I don't think I ever finished that game -certainly I didn't finish in time to submit.

Thanks for the link to the previous gauntlet, Spoonwood; that was interesting reading.

My basic strategy for keeping up in tech and getting some money will consist of follows. I know I've more-or-less stated this elsewhere, but I may as well say it better.

1. Create a 4 turn settler factory with a grassland cow/river start like "normal" and grab as much territory as I can.

2. Find a tribe A that has an extra luxury or resource.

3. Try to get 2 units capable of pillaging and 6 workers (4 workers if I play as Persia or the Ottos) to stand at the borders with tribe A.

4. Take whatever lump sum I have and get as much gpt as the AI will give me in multiples of 18. Example: if I have 38 gold and they'll give me 2 gpt, I'll trade 36 gold for 2 gpt.

5. Supposing I have a trade route going for their luxury or resource, I'll THEN pillage with the first unit. If not, I'll just jump to step 6.

6. 3 (or 2) workers will road up so we have the possibility of a trade route.

7. I'll pay gpt for tribe A's extra resource/luxury and techs and/or the lump sum I gave them before.

7a. I won't export anything.

8. The second unit will pillage.

9. The last 3 (or 2) workers will road to reconnect the trade route.

10. I'll buy the luxury/resource using gpt.

11. I won't run research for a while, except possibly for Literature. I'll just build up a treasury and use it buy libraries, universities, courthouses, granaries, and harbors if I pillage out the capital.

Once I get into a position, probably around the high middle ages or the industrial age change, where I can actually get to techs first, I'll build harbors and stop the pillaging/re-roading. In the games where I've done this so far, I've usually used a border square to do this, while leaving the rest of my border squares unroaded. I've started to think more that pillaging out the capital might make more sense, since it will already lie on a river, and thus I only get one extra commerce per roaded square there, while border sites not on a river get two commerce as opposed to 0. Even calculating for corruption, it might actually work out better to not have the capital roaded than the border spot of my empire. With some luck I'll get a map where all 3 AIs will have an extra resource or luxury.

Thanks for posting your strategy Spoonwood.

Tone said:

Please submit your games by January 15th.

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Did you mean February 15th?

Well, my first few tries went up in smoke quickly. Then I took a break for the GOTM and to finish up a huge chieftain diplomatic game. My first try after that was derailed early on when I discovered that both the Americans and the Mongols were on my island. I picked archipelago and 80% water to try to stay away from the AI, not get crammed on a tiny island with both of them. Currently I'm trying one where I (Theodora) have my own island with a whopping 5 luxes and a pretty good supply of food bonus tiles, but unfortunately no fresh water. If the AI would oblige me by self-destructing, I'd be all set.

All of my attempts have failed quickly also. My settings are Pangaea 60% water, wet/warm/5 billion, no barbs, least aggressive(AI aggression) against 3 scientific civs. The speed at which the AI expands at this level is killing me. One game in particular was very bad. By the time I had 4 towns, one AI had 13 towns and another AI had 12. Perhaps I should try archipelago also? Suggestions welcomed!

Pacioli said:

By the time I had 4 towns, one AI had 13 towns and another AI had 12.

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This, by itself, I wouldn't worry about. Remember, the AI starts with 3 total settlers at this level while you start with 1. For my standard map game by the time I found my 4th and 5th city (on the same turn) the top AI had 12 and the second had 11. If you can found 7 towns, then you have a shot. Possibly even less to start with (someone won with 5 cities at this level), and possibly capturing/founding more later. The trick lies in climbing out of the hole you start in.

I have a decent one with the Ottos against Korea, Germany, and I think Russia where Korea got torched early... I mean totally burned to the ground, dead, extreminated by the other AIs. I've "bought" Education, started potentially real research on Chemistry, but haven't hit Banking yet, but still the AIs still haven't seemed to have all that much gpt. Two opponents left doesn't seem like all that many free techs.

I've done one or two others which I've abandonded, thinking I might do better. I haven't had trouble finding a luxury or resource to trade for from someone to get techs and gpt, but it seems like I can barely get 3 luxuries if I have one native and trade for two. My standard Sid games (spaceship and now conquest) seem to have more luxuries available (and more gpt as one would expect). I really don't like the feeling of tiny maps at this level, and have spent a lot of time this month so far playing Deity and Demi-God 20k games. Maybe I'll go back to my tiny game and just conquer the AIs first and do research later and not care so much about finish date... if I can get some saltpeter.

Spoonwood said:

If you can found 7 towns, then you have a shot. Possibly even less to start with (someone won with 5 cities at this level), and possibly capturing/founding more later. The trick lies in climbing out of the hole you start in.

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Thanks for the info Spoonwood.

Well, my last game went on for a while, but it became obvious that I was going to lose by 100k long before the spaceship could launch. The luxes (5) were nice, and I had iron, but the lack of water was starting to hurt. I'm now using it as a learning experience - how to invade the AI's island on Sid. It's interesting, but it will not turn back into a spaceship game, ever.

I've tried a couple of starts on continents, but we keep splitting up 2 on one continent and one on another, even when there are other large empty land masses.

My last Sid attempt was my best to date.

Positives:
1. Founded 15 towns before the expansion phase of the game ended.
2. Captured and held an AI town (did not flip back to the AI).
3. Created a MGL.
4. Built a wonder (Great Library)
5. Survived until the late MA before losing by domination. Needed only ToG to get to IA.

The above were all firsts for me in my limited Sid experience.

Negatives:
1. Losing by domination as I did not see it coming. I was blinded by my desire to make it to the IA.
2. Created an army of horses and lost it one turn later to a conscript medieval infantry. Cussed for about a minute after and then laughed at myself. This is a game!
3. Did not manage happiness very well. Too many riots, too often.

Even though I lost the game, I learned some valuable lessons. I do not expect to achieve a Sid victory anytime soon but the experience is worth it.

Congratulations! What a bummer to lose the army right away, though.

Coincidentally, I'm also almost to the industrial age - I'm almost done with ToG, but I still lack metallurgy - I have the SoZ, so it's last. If I play it out, I'll probably make it to the IA before losing to 100k, but I've mostly shut off research to play around with invasions, so I might not. I've got about 50 turns left. I'm taking a break to play the COTM, though, and Regent is playing awfully easy.

I do think I can beat Sid, but not to space, especially on a tiny map. Maybe diplomatic on small or standard, after I recover a bit.

I hope you beat Sid soon CKS! I agree, after Sid, Regent is very relaxing.

Well, I never came close to a win, but Demigod isn't feeling so hard now - I've got a nice Demigod 20K going right now (no leader luck, but the AI are not an issue).

For the next one, I'd really like something easier than Sid and bigger than Tiny.