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Old Oct 13, 2010, 04:05 PM   #1
sleepysteve
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Liberated Civs dont like you??

So I have been being the world police in my recent game for some time, I have liberated three different civs from the Songhai, and not a single civ that I just brought back from the ashes is friendly towards me!! I think that sucks, anybody else having the same issues?
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 04:28 PM   #2
VonOmar
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Same problem for me and yes it sucks. Yet city-states love you when liberated. At least the liberated nation will vote for you in the UN
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 04:29 PM   #3
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Has been reported as bug .
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 04:54 PM   #4
lkjggfs
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I liberated a CS and it came back as allied to Egypt who I was at war with, so then they DOWed me and I took the city for good.
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 05:00 PM   #5
Alfonso X
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Yeah i liberated Paris thrice in a game, and the frenchs still hated my guts, despite i did nothing to deserve it. I only was 4th strongest civ, and i didnt settle near them or traded with their enemies.
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Old Oct 13, 2010, 05:08 PM   #6
Black PrinceIV
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I liberated Washington and he declared war on me 10 turns later.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 04:50 AM   #7
BjoernLars
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I think that it is apart of the new AI mentallity of "playing to win". The current AI system always start taking a negative stance on you the moment you become an agressor, even if they act the same way.

So, despite being liberated, you method was of military action and will use that for their reasoning to hate you.

I personally miss the old AI idea of being a character in your "story" and not a cut throat opponent hell bent on winning.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 04:55 AM   #8
MRM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BjoernLars View Post
I think that it is apart of the new AI mentallity of "playing to win". The current AI system always start taking a negative stance on you the moment you become an agressor, even if they act the same way.

So, despite being liberated, you method was of military action and will use that for their reasoning to hate you.

I personally miss the old AI idea of being a character in your "story" and not a cut throat opponent hell bent on winning.
If the AI is programmed to win, then why did it always fail to do so, even if the AI is in the position to win ?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=391448

Btw I don't like it either, that liberated civs hate you - strange behaviour
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 05:15 AM   #9
paganizer
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I liberated (and revived) the aztecs in my old game - just for fun really. I had the strongest military in the game, owned an entire continent (on huge map) and I had most of my military around the now liberated aztec city. 2 turns later he tells me i'm pathetic (compared to his one city and no military units?)... lol.
I decided Montezuma was best the way he was.. extinct
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 05:18 AM   #10
Fistalis
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Originally Posted by The_J View Post
Has been reported as bug .
Its not a bug they are playing to win.. not gonna win being your little sidekick
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 05:24 AM   #11
MRM
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Its not a bug they are playing to win.. not gonna win being your little sidekick
Ah, they play to win ... and it is a good idea to annoy the civ that just liberated you and is in the position to wipe you out again, if you want to win ? Well, not really.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 05:26 AM   #12
Clement
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There are many things about Civ 5 that i really like and others that i don't like much at all, i can live with all of them, however there is one thing that pretty much ruins the game for me personally and that is the "ai plays to win" philosophy, and even then only because it does'nt work, if it worked well i probably would'nt have a problem with it.

I would'nt expect the AI to try and lose, but if it was really trying to win at any cost it would not declare war on it's liberator once it had been wiped out, it would be all smiles and bide it's time until it was strong enough for one of the victory conditions again, it may even join you on your wars and ask for cities which it could use to improve it's position, it should, for the most part, be friendly to all Civs in the hope of getting back to it's former glory.

I'd like to put forward an idea if i may, make the Ai feel that a high score at the end of the game is as important to it as the other victory conditions, that way it would be free to honour it's friends whilst still having a shot at at the title as it were, if it values high score it will be in a position at some point to go for any of the victory conditions.

I really miss the ability to be friends from beginning to end with a Civilization, the current model has removed so many random stories that used to pop up in my games, i currently know for the most part how every Civ will react, with violence and ingratitude, frankly it becomes predictably boring.
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Last edited by Clement; Oct 14, 2010 at 05:36 AM.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 05:45 AM   #13
Fistalis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRM View Post
Ah, they play to win ... and it is a good idea to annoy the civ that just liberated you and is in the position to wipe you out again, if you want to win ? Well, not really.
So they should what? Suck up to you while they build their army then sneak attack and raze your cities? Either way same result. Simply the "Play to win AI" was a design decision. I don't like it either but were pretty much stuck with it.. sure they can tweak it but even in the above scenario you get the same result.. which is AI will eventually turn on you again there is absolutely no GOOD reason liberate another civ.. it was just a "hey look at this neat thing we can add that has no play value due to our diplomacy design." Because again.. even in the above scenario the CIV is going to turn on you.. so there is NO REASON to liberate him.

Last edited by Fistalis; Oct 14, 2010 at 05:48 AM.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 06:00 AM   #14
MRM
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IMO they should fix it this way.

Make liberated civ vassal states
Let vassal states vote for you in the UN

and to balance this, make votes from City states harder. Its lame and far to easy, that you can buy them just before the vote anyway.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 06:02 AM   #15
Fistalis
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Originally Posted by MRM View Post
IMO they should fix it this way.

Make liberated civ vassal states
Let vassal states vote for you in the UN

and to balance this, make votes from City states harder. Its lame and far to easy, that you can buy them just before the vote anyway.
Problem with that is.. they removed vassal states entirely to streamline. Its one of the many complaints from us CIV IV lovers that we expressed and were told to shut up and get over the fact that they gutted so much from it
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 06:18 AM   #16
Lone Wolf
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Don't confuse "an AI that plays to win" vs. "an AI that plays like a jerk". Once you pass a certain point of weakness, staying under the radar is the best action - because all others are suicidal.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 06:36 AM   #17
Knocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso X View Post
Yeah i liberated Paris thrice in a game, and the frenchs still hated my guts, despite i did nothing to deserve it. I only was 4th strongest civ, and i didnt settle near them or traded with their enemies.
That is not a bug, that is accurate programing to reflect real life.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 11:30 AM   #18
Draknith
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I have yet to really see any of this. My current game Songhai DOW on me early. I quickly took the battle to them and won. Years later, Greece DOW on Songhai and after comming to their resucue and liberating them in the second Greek Songhai War, they have been great friends with me despite the fact that we have engaged in war against eachother.

Quote:
Yeah i liberated Paris thrice in a game, and the frenchs still hated my guts, despite i did nothing to deserve it. I only was 4th strongest civ, and i didnt settle near them or traded with their enemies.
This is probably because the French need desperate times to feel adequately "French". It's just in their nature to hate themselves... haha
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 12:18 PM   #19
SuperJay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
Don't confuse "an AI that plays to win" vs. "an AI that plays like a jerk". Once you pass a certain point of weakness, staying under the radar is the best action - because all others are suicidal.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner

People want to believe there's a reason the AI acts the way it does, so "it plays to win" is a nice catchphrase, but winning and being stupid aren't the same thing.
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Old Oct 14, 2010, 02:04 PM   #20
teks
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Sick of the AI playing to win. Sick of the AI attacking everyone around it. I can't even make peace with ghandi...
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