Thoughts for SGOTM 14

shyuhe · Jul 5, 2011

Hi everyone,

I know there are some people looking forward to SGOTM 14 and instead of having several discussions in different threads, I thought it might be useful to have everyone post their thoughts (and questions) in one single thread.

Who knows, maybe the as yet undisclosed mapmaker will consider some of our ideas?

Gumbolt · Jul 5, 2011

So we didn't need to wait for a mod to create the thread. :eek:

So where to go??? The anti Great People game!!

Basically you have to win the game without generating a single great person! Of course a victory condition would be required. I might suggest diplomatic or conquest/ domination.

This can easily be tracked as it will show in the game log.

It will also make you think about reaching techs first in case you generate a gp.

I think at emperor level this would offer some interesting challenges!! A true cottage game!!!

See now the French have regained control of the world they would need some cottages for its new citizens.

Of course this effects the game in many respects. Would we exclude great generals too?? Ooooh.

shyuhe · Jul 5, 2011

Gumbolt said:
So we didn't need to wait for a mod to create the thread.

My hope is that enough people will show enthusiasm for another SGOTM so that we can make sure the ball keeps on rolling!

I'd like to see a more peaceful game in 14 as well, as the last two games entailed military VC's.

Gumbolt · Jul 5, 2011

shyuhe said:
My hope is that enough people will show enthusiasm for another SGOTM so that we can make sure the ball keeps on rolling!

I'd like to see a more peaceful game in 14 as well, as the last two games entailed military VC's.

I think most people were just waiting for the next game. I do think we should give AlanH and DS a bit more time to recover but this thread is not a bad idea.

Ultimately any game should have some kind of limiting factor to make the player think.

For instance on the Anti GP game you could penalise teams 20 turns for each GP produced. Get each team to really crank out some maths.

Or you could restrict GP creation to great spies. You would have to give away the great wall to an Ai maybe. I still like the espionage game thing.

Peaceful games normally mean diplomatic/space or culture wins. We have already seen the diplomatic game won ultra early. Culture has already been done too. We need a few twists and a few side objectives.

The last SGOTM put people outside their usual game comfort zone in a good way. Hopefully DS if he chooses to take on the next map will think up some curious ways to make things more interesting.

AlanH · Jul 5, 2011

Thanks for the inputs, please keep them coming. I haven't even press-ganged a map designer yet, so all ideas are welcome.

Gumbolt · Jul 5, 2011

AlanH

We could put a link in S and T section to get ideas and let others know this post exists.

I do think this series should always push one element of the game to the limit to challenge players to think outside the box.

kossin · Jul 5, 2011

Emperor difficulty. Immortal if warring.
Normal speed? Or do people prefer Epic?

Hardly customized or heavily customized?
Hardly is easier on the mapmakers.

Special victory conditions?
There could be other special victory conditions, not necessarily the ones fixed by the game... for example having all 7 religions in at least 10 cities.

Espionage could be interesting but hard to monitor. Best played on Imm+ though.

chopster · Jul 5, 2011

Perhaps an always peace space race, might be an interesting challenge and a departure from the norm.

lymond · Jul 5, 2011

GB - No Great People? - that'd be hard to pull off with Wonders

There could be other special victory conditions, not necessarily the ones fixed by the game.

I like this idea...kinda similar to SGOTM12 which was a lot of fun. And to your ideas about religions, I played a variant in an SG recently in which we had to build 11 cathedrals. Something along those lines is challenging and interesting as you have to have at least 33 cities to pull it off. Also, I think adding to the variant something with relationship with other AIs like you can't DOW on CIV X ever or have to give into all demands/requests of CIV Y.

neilmeister · Jul 5, 2011

kossin said:
Special victory conditions?
There could be other special victory conditions, not necessarily the ones fixed by the game...

I agree. SG11 was quite interesting becasue of the requirement to have 4 GP and 4 warriors at the end of the game.

AlanH · Jul 5, 2011

Gumbolt said:
AlanH

We could put a link in S and T section to get ideas and let others know this post exists.

Please feel free to post about it there. I don't recall my previous efforts at publicity in S&T having much success. I guess you know more of what would interest those guys than me.

BTW, you never need to wait for a mod to create a thread in any forum. We're just mods, not sole proprietors. All you need to do is to ensure that it is relevant to the forum, and that it doesn't duplicate another thread topic. And, of course, it has it conform with the forum posting rules.

Xcalibrator · Jul 5, 2011

If there's a preference for peace, a cultural victory condition would be the way to go (or would it?

). But to make things more interesting and avoid the standard Jesusin-mastered method, say you can't build cathedrals. Maybe not even allow culture bombs.

shyuhe · Jul 5, 2011

Xcalibrator said:
If there's a preference for peace, a cultural victory condition would be the way to go (or would it? ). But to make things more interesting and avoid the standard Jesusin-mastered method, say you can't build cathedrals. Maybe not even allow culture bombs.

This would probably lead to mass sushi spam + sushi resource gathering.

How about a straight space colony game? You'll have to go through most of the tech tree so you can't go on a full conquest spree to fuel your space run. It might be interesting to make it an isolated start, although the game may feel a little too sandbox-ey then.

kossin · Jul 5, 2011

I'd avoid Always Peace to be honest, it adds more spice to the game to control DoWs.

I don't fancy a space colony much as I find the early game the most interesting and having to rush through it to make sure you have enough time to complete the game is not appealing to me. Similarly with Culture, at one point it's just hitting enter 75 times.

Leave DoWs in, but add a special condition like, for example, no ~~rush~~ DoW before 1X00AD... a scenario can certainly be managed to make that fit

... while allowing all victory conditions but Diplo. If the AIs aren't complete pushovers [big land, good rexxers] and vassals are still off, it isn't that clear that Domination/Conquest is the fastest way to go anymore.

Anyone fancy using teams with/against AIs?

Dhoomstriker · Jul 5, 2011

Gumbolt said:
Culture has already been done too.

Insufficiently. I tried looking through old games and I could only find 2 Cultural Victory submissions in the entire history of the Civ 4 SGOTM (both from SGOTM 11), although I admit that SGOTM 09's page isn't loading for me (maybe a link on there is broken or something?), so just my luck, that would be the SGOTM where teams played a Cultural Victory.

neilmeister · Jul 5, 2011

I fully support a scenario where the best VC to go for is hard to know (and not simply a toss up between military VC's such as SG13 or peaceful VC's in SG11).

I like kossins suggestion limiting an early DoW, as the medals could go to teams pursuing 3 different VC's. It might be tricky be fine tune though, as it would be simple to build a massive army and start attacking the turn it was allowed.

I could also handle Culture again (my team was one of the 2 Dhoom mentioned above), but I also agree with kossin. As long as there is an extra condition which could only realistically be achieved in the late game, when it would normally just be hitting enter time. Such as the conquest of a specific AI (like SG12), or controlling late game resources such as Coal, Uranium or Aluminium.

lymond · Jul 6, 2011

Anyone fancy using teams with/against AIs?

While certainly an interesting concept, it seems to me it would add an unwelcome bit of randomness to the game like huts/events.

As opposed to a straight Culture VC, a culture prerequisite could be added to the overall VC. For instance, if Domination is the main VC, we must get 1 City to X amount of culture (say 50,000) or 3 Cities to X amount of culture (say 30,000)

kcd_swede · Jul 6, 2011

How 'bout this: Win any way you want, but you must control the HQ to EVERY corporation before you win.

Just a thought.

BLubmuz · Jul 6, 2011

Sorry to criticize Gumbolt, but your idea of no Great People is totally broken.
If you build or capture a wonder, even a NW, you will generate GP, no matter what you do. Obviously we can have a no-wonders-rule, which means that if you capture a city with a WW you must raze it. But such rule will be too much of an handicap for the human, i think.

I propose a Mastery VC, like you can find in many mods:
win a space race with 1 or 2 legendary cities, 50% of land and 70% of population.
The problem can be the Dom limit, which often drops during a game, but i think we can solve that.

So research, war and any aspect of the game must be covered. Not easy to have a legendary city when you're running for Space. And you can't be competitive if you don't wage wars.

bobbyboy29 · Jul 6, 2011

BLubmuz said:
I propose a Mastery VC, like you can find in many mods:
win a space race with 1 or 2 legendary cities, 50% of land and 70% of population.
The problem can be the Dom limit, which often drops during a game, but i think we can solve that.

So research, war and any aspect of the game must be covered. Not easy to have a legendary city when you're running for Space. And you can't be competitive if you don't wage wars.

Really like this idea. Encouraging the teams to have to focus on multiple aspects of the game rather than just one or 2 aspects like the last couple of games.

I also think that playing against teams of AI's is a pretty cool idea although playing with an AI would probably not be much fun.

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