Game of Thrones / ASOIAF Scenario for BTS

**UPDATED** 3/21/2012

Here is a scenario based on the world of Westeros, the fictional setting of Game of Thrones and the A Song of Ice and Fire book series.

See the download here (may not be available immediately as it must wait in the moderation queue):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=17339

You can take control of one of the following factions:

The North - Robb Stark (Germany - Brennus)
The Riverlands - Edmure Tully (France - Charlemagne)
The Vale - Lysa Tully (Greece - Boudica)
The Westerlands - Tywin Lannister (Russia - Augustus Caesar)
House Bolton of the Dreadfort (vassals of Stark) - Roose Bolton (Rome - Mehmed)
Dragonstone - Stannis Baratheon (Celts - Ragnar)
The Iron Islands - Balon Greyjoy (Vikings - Stalin)
The Stormlands - Renly Baratheon (Holy Rome - Alexander)
The Reach - Mace Tyrell (Portugal - Pericles)
Dorne - Doran Martell (Spain - Hannibal)
House Frey of the Twins (vassals of Tully) - Walder Frey (England - Bismarck)

Here's the setting (spoilers up to end of season 1 or first book):



Again, this is a scenario for BTS; not a mod. Everything that was altered was done so using the World Builder. I am working on a mod, but figured I'd post this now.

-Beast

I'm eager to try this !
Are you sure Hoster should be the leader for the riverlands ? He is barely sane, and Edmure acts as lord of Riverrun.

Youre right about hoster. I will adjust that for the mod for sure and any future tweaks for this scenario, but for now it will have to do
EDIT: I will also make the leader for the Crownlands cersei in the future (or should i? still reading clash of kings haha). She will most likely be represented by Elizabeth.

I spoke to an administrator and he said there usually isnt a set amount of time a file will sit in the moderation queue and that we should just be patient and hopefully it will get approved this weekend.

Once you can dl it, let me know what you think.

Some changes I made to the map:

-Added a lot of snow and tundra to the north
-Added tundra to the Neck and the area immediatley surrounding the Trident (to simulate marshlands, this will be different in the mod).
-Added more mountains to the vale so the only access points are through the high road (bloody gate), and north along the coast and south along the coast.
-Flood plains added to dorne deserts
-Added claw isle


Some things i've noticed from playnig a few turns:
-Because the whole map is visible to all players, exploration is limited. However, I left the area north of the wall unexplored, so what happens is ALL AI players send their knights up north to explore the area which decimates the weak barbarian (wilding) population that was meant to be enemies for the night's watch only. Any thoughts on a way to fix this? I suppose i could just beef up the barbarians up there but idk. maybe ill leave the ENTIRE map explored for all players except the night's watch so they dont have that urge to explore?
-I'm thinking of adding some more siege units to start with because right now it is almost impossible to capture any city without them (i played as the lannisters). And because i played marathon, it took a while to build siege units. Pillaging and burning the riverlands was fun, but sacking a city would be better
-the Reach gets really powerful very quickly. dunno if i should leave this or not...

EDIT: Question- should I make some civs vassals? eg.: riverlands vassals of the north, crownlands vassals of the westerlands?

-beast

I think the map should be good now, but you're probably have to spend some time fixing the balancing issues.

About the siege units problem, well in the mod you could make it possible to build trebuchets from woodlands directly with gold but in a scenario I suppose it would be better to give a small amount of siege engines to the Lannisters (although they didn't seem to have any, hence the siege of riverrun). A system for soldiers losing strength when the city is starving would also be great for the mod.
Now about the map being visible, what about making each faction see its own territory, plus the roads (kingsroad and such). Let them do the exploration (a good general chooses its battlefield, and it's an advantage when you know the land you're fighting in, so it's only fair that you know your land better than your ennemy's).
Finally, I suppose the north/riverlands and crownlands/westerlands should be allies or vassals, but it would make more sense if the king wasn't the vassal of his western subjects.

I'll PM you for questions/ideas about your mod in progress.

Edit : well it seems better for Cersei to be queen from the start (because it's mainly the case, she's the ruler, and also for other reasons you'll find out in later books).

The scenario is (at last) downloadable.

On first sight (I played as Robb) : the land north of the neck is really useless, which is good but frustrating since the few good tiles are not in the existing cities' crosses. Winterfell is particularly frustrating, since it's supposed to be on a heat source. Maybe the good tiles could be more centralized in important cities (Karhold is probably one of the worse city I ever saw in civ 4 with only 2 useful land tiles and 3 coast tiles).

Is it intentional for the cities to be that small ?

I'll give you a more detailed analysis tomorrow if I find some time.

Ok, so I've tried most of the factions, here are my remarks :

-The map is quite good, nothing to say there except for the frustrating resources 3 tiles away from cities (like the iron west of riverrun).

-the south is good and reasonably balanced, The Reach and the Stormlands are strong, but not to the point of being able to storm king's landing from the start (I tried and failed miserably in a hotseat game controlling both).

-As I said earlier, the North is really poor. It's good, but it might be good to keep in mind that the north is supposed to be more populated than Dorne. The areas around cities could be changed to more plains/grassland, at least enough to make those cities bearable.

-Nothing to say about the Riverlands and the Vale, except maybe that Riverrun could have one or two units more on start (Edmure tries to defeat Jaime on the field with his army, which is not possible now since you don't own an army in Riverrun).

-I haven't tried to play as Lannister, but it seems that they only have one knight to attack Riverrun directly, while there should be Gregor's troops ravaging the lands, Tywin about to take Harrenhal and Jaime preparing an attack on Riverrun. Maybe Harrenhal shouldn't be defended at first so that (if Edmure is AI-controlled) Tywin takes it.

-Stannis seems good enough, except that he doesn't use his fleet to blockade king's landing.

-Playing as Balon Greyjoy is fun, you have total control of the sea and your army is great. But I was disappointed when the lannisters cities I captured were razed because they were size 1. IMO they should all start at least size 2.

-My experience with the night's watch was very enlightening, but I'll send my remarks and ideas by PM. Let's say that it's not very good right now, but there's potential (especially for the mod).


All in all, it's pretty good ! The obvious flaws of the scenario (Starting date in 4000BC for example) will be corrected in the mod, which shows great promise if you continue on this track.

This scenario sounds nice
What do you plan for the mod?
New tech tree, new units, etc?

Thanks AdrienIer for all those comments/suggestions!

For future scenario releases, I will definitely be making those tweaks. In response to your issues about the north: yes it was intentional as I wanted to keep the cities small (most are supposed to be mere fortresses rather than cities). But after seeing that the gameplay is affected a little too much, i will make the needed adjustments.

Like you say, some of the issues here would be difficult to address in a scenario, so hopfully if/when I get this mod completed we wont have those issues.

Absinthered: Yes, I plan to make a new tech tree and I have already begun developing units, but to be honest it is very slow going. If anyone with modding experience would be willing to help out, that would be great.

I am glad the scenario is fun to play. If anyone wishes to alter the scenario themselves, feel free to do so and post it so we can all enjoy the changes made.

-beast

PS: Has anyone besides adrienier been able to play the scenario? I just want to make sure there are no technical issues. Thanks!

PPS: I have created an updated map that I will probably be posting sometime soon. Some changes made include:
-Bigger! 64X115. This extra space has been added to the north to give better gameplay to the night's watch (more to explore, more enemies to fight, more haunted forest)
-As with before, tundra/snow added to the north (but not too much)
-Bonus resource locations tweaked (to place them close to existing cities)
-Vale, dorne, and iron islands terrain adjusted.

I will also be experimenting with an EVEN BIGGER map to include Essos. It will be almost double the size of the existing map (115x115 or so), so i dont know how well it will work, but i really want to get the free cities, the dothraki, qarth, daenerys, etc. all represented in the game as well.

TheBeast said:

PS: Has anyone besides adrienier been able to play the scenario? I just want to make sure there are no technical issues. Thanks!

Click to expand...

Yep, I checked the map
Didn't really play - only a couple turns - but no technical issues

One thing that might be good for when you make the mod is adding Marathon Accelerated so we don't end up with the Lannisters fielding tanks against Dragonstone's helicopters or whatever.

For the mod, The Beast plans on making a new tech tree, so there won't be tanks or helicopters, it will stay in the middle ages.

For the mod, The Beast plans on making a new tech tree, so there won't be tanks or helicopters, it will stay in the middle ages.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Speaking of the tech tree, I have a few ideas, but I would love to hear what you all come up with.

Some examples i've thought of:
-Valyrian Metalworking - Reveals Valyrian Steel Bonus (maybe?). Allows building some new units.
-Pyromancy - Allows construction of 'Alchemist's Guild'. Allows production of 'Wildfire' or something like that.
-Fealty - Allows the 'Fealty' Civic (can 'Call the Bannermen' (ie.: draft))
-Dothraki Tactics - Allows production of 'Mounted Archer'
-Secrets of (insert supernatural entities here, eg: Children of the Forest, R'hllor, etc.) allows some religious buildings/civics or something like that.
-Dragon Domestication - Can train dragons (targaryen only? late game)

Any other ideas are most welcome. Once I have a solid base, I'll begin organizing it into a comprehensive tree, then ill begin the actual modification.

Another aspect I think i might use is not allowing most units be upgraded. Alot of units will be available to build as almost none will supercede the other. For example: once youve researched the technology that allows the production of macemen, you will still be able to produce axemen (or their equivalents, i plan to replace almost all vanilla units), this way armies will be varied in their composition, with both weaker and stronger units as is described in the books. This will also lead to civs being able to produce very large armies of cheap, weak units quite quickly (ala stafford lannisters levied troops), or create a smaller group of well trained strong units (or a mixture of both for that matter).

What do you all think?

-beast

PS: Should i open up a Mod developement thread for this kind of discussion?

Ok, nvm regarding tech then.
I think it would be neat (not necessarily possible, but neat) to have certain technologies that are "lost," like Valyrian Metalworking, that you can't simply research--after all, it supposedly takes dragon fire to make Valyrian steel. So you have to hatch/capture/awaken/trick/otherwise get a dragon to do it. Or find ancient scrolls or something that document it on a dangerous quest in the ruins of Valyria.

that would be really neat. I will look into seeing if something like that is possible. If not, I might just make a 'dragons eggs' resource and make it extremely rare or something along those lines. Thanks for the input!

Ok another idea i had about units: units will start out relatively weak (warrior, spearman, etc.) and gradually get stronger (similar to vanilla and bts). However, once you reach a certain point in the tech tree (around the time you get access to knights and siege engines and pikemen) the strength of every future unit will sort of plateau. Now this doesn't mean you wont get any new units, you will; but rather then the units increasing in strength, they will simply have more specific roles: unique bonuses versus a certain type of unit or terrain. Basically i want to make it so that the only things stronger than heavy cavalry/knights are dragons and extremely rare units like that (supernatural ones i guess). This way, a unit's experience and your tactics play more of a role in whether you win or not, not simply how advanced you are technically. I will need to find a balance here though. There should still rewards for advancing technologically (i dont want people just setting their science percent to 0 once theyve reached a certain point in the tech tree, thatd be stupid).

ok sorry about that ramble haha. Im just trying to get all my ideas in order

TheBeast said:

-Dragon Domestication - Can train dragons (targaryen only? late game)

Click to expand...

I think the issue with making them Targaryen-only is that it would seriously handicap all other civilizations and it also doesn't necessarily make sense.



At the same time, it would obviously be ridiculous to give everyone access to dragons. I'll think about how that might work out and get back to you. (This post was rather useless. Sorry!)

Vhagar said:

(This post was rather useless. Sorry!)

Click to expand...

It was perfect for a first post
Welcome to CFC!!

Vhagar said:

I think the issue with making them Targaryen-only is that it would seriously handicap all other civilizations and it also doesn't necessarily make sense.

At the same time, it would obviously be ridiculous to give everyone access to dragons. I'll think about how that might work out and get back to you. (This post was rather useless. Sorry!)

Click to expand...

Not useless! Haha. Although you might be right about the handicap, I am going to go ahead a not read whatever you put in the spoiler as I am only just finishing up Clash of Kings now and I dont want anything ruined haha. But i see your point. Again these are just some ideas I still need to flesh out. I will think on it as well.

Perhaps maintaining a dragon should be very costly. Yes, they're a big asset in war, but every minute it's not at the front line is weighing down the whole civ. That way, even if only one player gets dragons, it's not an instant game-win.

TheBeast said:

Some examples i've thought of:
-Valyrian Metalworking - Reveals Valyrian Steel Bonus (maybe?). Allows building some new units.

Click to expand...

That would be late game I suppose ? And what about a "knowledge of Valyrian Steel" tech in the beginning of the tech tree ? It would represent the vayrian blades still in use in the great families of Westeros, maybe providing the possibility to build 2 or 3 elite units (national units of course). Only the great houses should have it, I don't remember the ironmen having Valyrian blades. It would also picture the fact that houses have some elite and renowned soldiers (the greatjon for the north, Jaime and the mountain for the Lannisters, Barristan for the Crown, Loras Tyrell for the Reach, Oberyn for Dorne etc...)

Welcome to CFC, Vhagar ! Indeed, Quentyn was heavily "distracted" by Rhaegal...