SGOTM 16 - Pre-game Discussion

AlanH

AlanH

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Please use this thread to discuss or raise questions about the game rules before it starts.

Please don't speculate about your team strategies here. Wait until you have a private team thread - and you know which teams you are allocated to.
 
So basically, it is a game won on the fastest tech speed, the one who reach future tech the fastest. So, war mode ---> strong empire fast ---> Corps? ---> ??? ----> Win.

In case of remaining ties, the team with the higher final score will win.
Click to expand...
No! Both wins the same award. It happened in the past, right? To be beaten with score is frustrating.


Self-tech IW, Astro and Physics...ooops...instant loss Noooo.

Ok, looks like a very intense game in terms of involvement.
 
Sounds like a bit of everything, since we cannot capture culture..should be very interesting, more planning needed than ever ~~
 
My guess the legendaries will come from GArtists mainly as we need all the beakers to push towards Future Tech as fast as possible. We cannot lose beakers for culture as the slider change the whole empire commerce into culture.
My guess one city is wonder heavy (perhaps), another LC is food heavy and never touch the slider other than science.
 
Tachywaxon said:
No! Both wins the same award. It happened in the past, right? To be beaten with score is frustrating.
Click to expand...

Finish faster then.:p

If its a big deal, we can discuss it... I'm not dead set on that score tie-breaking condition, but it has been pretty standard in the xOTM series.
 
^
I know xOTM works that way, but all the involvementa killed by a couple of hundred of scores is so ugly. Nevertheless my guess it won't happen because the huge number of conditions make the ties less likely.
 
With Louis, everyone will build the Pyras and they really help with Artists ;)
I think an interesting question will be cottages, in addition with Rep. but how many.
 
half cheap Mids ---> Rep boosted Economy --->> GENgineer --->> Mining Corp ---> ??? ---> Win

Me agree. Obsessed with corp versus SP fights.

Humbaba = GDR version CIV? With the health bar trick, people should guess how strong.
 
Tachywaxon said:
^
I know xOTM works that way, but all the involvementa killed by a couple of hundred of scores is so ugly. Nevertheless my guess it won't happen because the huge number of conditions make the ties less likely.
Click to expand...
I agree a tie both on conditions met and speed is unlikely. However, as you say, we have not used tie-breakers before in SGOTMs, so I have no problem with removing that if people (note the plural) feel strongly about it.
 
AlanH said:
1) Someone has killed Humbaba (Thanks Leif), who is a real monster just like in BOTM 41, but now lives in a fairly secluded place.
2) You own at least 2 Legendary culture cities.
3) You are EITHER the United Nations Secretary General OR the Apostolic Palace Resident.
4) You have learned Future Tech 1.
5) At least one AI opponent has been eliminated (conquered) by your team.
6) You own at least three Holy Shrines
7) You own at least three Corporate Headquarters
8) You have stolen EITHER Iron Working, OR Astronomy, OR Physics using espionage.
9) You fulfil the requirements for TWO victory conditions, at least one of which is NOT Conquest or Domination. (For example, your spaceship arrives on Alpha Centauri the same turn you get Domination, that’s two. If you achieve domination on the same turn as conquest victory, then you need one more victory condition to fulfil this condition. Understood? ).
10) Blazing: You must submit a save covering at least your first 100 turns – or victory or defeat - not later than 2 months after game start.
Click to expand...

OK, let's start the questions:
1) you have to kill a (i suspect) powerful unit, hidden in the middle of nothing. For the ones of us not participating in BotM 41, can tou please tell us what he is?
2 to 8 + 10) i think all those are clear.
9) to fulfill 2 VCs, you need to play after the victory screen. Thus you can win by domination, then by culture or space after you have already won the game? In whatever order you like, i suppose.
 
So basically to get the gold you need to have acheived the most objectives out of any team. In case of a tie on highest number of objectives acheived you need to win by the earliest date.

Sounds fun!
 
As AlanH clearly stated, this is not the thread to be discussing strategy. That must be done in the private threads or not at all.

BLubmuz and Gumbolt are staying on the topic of rules clarification. With a little focus, the rest of us can follow their example.

In my opinion, there should be no need to mention strategy at all to pose and discuss a rules question.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
AlanH said:
Someone has killed Humbaba (Thanks Leif), who is a real monster just like in BOTM 41, but now lives in a fairly secluded place.
Click to expand...

Objective #1 quoted above seems to be a simple statement of fact. It's not an imperative statement that requires that something must be done. What should the team actually do satisfy this objective? Please do not assume that everyone playing SGOTM-15 has played or even knows anything about BOTM-41.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Now, let's try a ranking:

Team 1 fulfills ALL the 10 conditions, and wins in 1800 AD
Team 2 meet 9 conditions and wins in 1700 AD

Is it correct that Team 1 is Gold and Team 2 Silver?

Then, some conditions are mandatory (i guess #10 is) or are all at the same level? The 10 objectives are not balanced, so perhaps give a score instead than have all count 1 can be a good way to define a rank. Also, why not give another value to turns in computing that rank?

Let me try to explain: the fastest finish have the max score (say, 100) then we subtract from 100 the number of turns of delay of the slower Teams.

But we add 10 points for any condition met. Better, following my first sentence, #4 and number 10 have to be mandatory, thus they worth 5 points.
#9, #2 and #3 are the most difficult, thus they worth 20. And so on.

Just to give some idea, i know there're guys good in this kind of things :)
 
Sun Tzu Wu said:
Objective #1 quoted above seems to be a simple statement of fact. It's not an imperative statement that requires that something must be done. What should the team actually do satisfy this objective? Please do not assume that everyone playing SGOTM-15 has played or even knows anything about BOTM-41.

Sun Tzu Wu
Click to expand...
Sure, it was my first question:
is it supposed to work like the Wizard of Oz SG? in other words, he must be killed, no matter if by the human or the AI or has to be the human to kill him to gain the score? IMHO it has to work like in the WoZ SG.

Then a description would be appreciated.
 
BLubmuz said:
9) to fulfill 2 VCs, you need to play after the victory screen. Thus you can win by domination, then by culture or space after you have already won the game? In whatever order you like, i suppose.
Click to expand...

Every team must win the game via one Victory Condition and on the same turn or the next turn satisify a second Victory Condition. The only pair of Victory Conditions that do NOT satisfy objective #9 is Conquest and Domination. The allowed window for objective #9 is two turns, starting with the turn of the Victory Condition that ends the game and in the following turn the team may play until they have satisfied as many unmet objectives as possible, including presumbly #9. At least this is how I understand the current reading of the SGOTM-16 rules as they relate to objective #9.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Would be strange, i understand that we can just play on after "victory 1".
No point in forcing that kind of timing, and i think that has no place here cos would be in no way connected to playing a good game, and then losing cos you got "victory 2" 1 turn too late..
and if iam wrong, please please change this.
 
Swede will have to tell you whether Humbaba is the same as he was in BOTM 41. Maybe he has been resurrected as a different being :dunno:

Somehow I just knew there would be some who have trouble with basic logic. The laurels will go to teams that win the game - assuming some do. The gold laurels will go to the team that achieves most of the ten objectives. If two teams achieve the same maximum number of objectives then the gold will go to the earliest in-game victory date of those teams. There is an unresolved question as to whether we distinguish two teams with the same number of conditions and the same victory date by comparing final scores, or whether we give two gold laurels.

It's not always necessary to do more in the next turn in order to achieve the second VC. Players quite often manage to reach two VCs in the same turn. In that case, the game only declares one of them, based on some internal priority processing, but both have been achieved. However, if you do this you will not need to do anything more after the "one more turn" sequence.

The turn after the victory ceremony might be used to finish any of the objectives - e.g. killing Humbaba or completing legendary cities or.....

I deliberately changed the wording of objective #1 to allow for the possibility that Humbaba gets killed by a rampant AI. It didn't seem fair to penalise a team who didn't get the chance to kill themselves.
 
Mylene said:
Would be strange, i understand that we can just play on after "victory 1".
No point in forcing that kind of timing, and i think that has no place here cos would be in no way connected to playing a good game, and then losing cos you got "victory 2" 1 turn too late..
and if iam wrong, please please change this.
Click to expand...
Is what i think, but better ask and be safe. Maybe STW has been duped by Alan's example, which is mostly referring to Domination/Conquest, which is clear they count for 1 VC achieved and not for 2.
 
AlanH said:
Swede will have to tell you whether Humbaba is the same as he was in BOTM 41. Maybe he has been resurrected as a different being :dunno:

Somehow I just knew there would be some who have trouble with basic logic. The laurels will go to teams that win the game - assuming some do. The gold laurels will go to the team that achieves most of the ten objectives. If two teams achieve the same maximum number of objectives then the gold will go to the earliest in-game victory date of those teams. There is an unresolved question as to whether we distinguish two teams with the same number of conditions and the same victory date by comparing final scores, or whether we give two gold laurels.

It's not always necessary to do more in the next turn in order to achieve the second VC. Players quite often manage to reach two VCs in the same turn. In that case, the game only declares one of them, based on some internal priority processing, but both have been achieved. However, if you do this you will not need to do anything more after the "one more turn" sequence.

The turn after the victory ceremony might be used to finish any of the objectives - e.g. killing Humbaba or completing legendary cities or.....

I deliberately changed the wording of objective #1 to allow for the possibility that Humbaba gets killed by a rampant AI. It didn't seem fair to penalise a team who didn't get the chance to kill themselves.
Click to expand...
So you're saying that we need to achieve both VCs in 1 turn?

Then, since you're speaking of "basic logic", can you please tell us if any of the 10 objectives is mandatory? As i understand it, #10 is, but not #4. IMHO this have to be mandatory or things risk to be the same of all the latest SGs.
Again on logic, i strongly recommend to give a different weight to all the objectives, since they are far easier/difficult when you compare them.
 
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