Golden Ages Getting Nerfed?

With the removal of base gold yield from river and water tiles, the gold bonus from Golden Ages is going to be dramatically reduced across the board. In the early game it's going to be nonexistant and even if you go TP spam, the gold bonus isn't going to become significant until the Industrial era at the absolute earliest. Will this mechanic get reworked, or will there be another bonus added to Golden Ages that affects Trade Routes?

On top of that, the schism of the Great Artist is going to make the 100 to 250 turn, Renaissance through Atomic, Golden Age spree much harder to maintain. AFAIK, only Painters are going to be capable of starting/extending a Golden Age. Will the length of their Golden Ages be buffed to compensate or, is this an intended affect of the changes brought on by BNW?

What does this mean for Persia, Chichen Itza, Big Ben (indirectly), etc.?

We know that the Brazilian UU contributes Golden Age points for every unit it kills, so most likely the same mechanism will be available via other ways as well, and excess happiness will no longer be the only way to work towards a Golden Age. I suspect for example that there will be a policy in the Honor or Autocracy trees that will also grant Golden Age points for units killed or cities captured, and maybe that the Uffizi Museum will grant Golden Age points for every Great Work you display.

Calouste said:

We know that the Brazilian UU contributes Golden Age points for every unit it kills, so most likely the same mechanism will be available via other ways as well, and excess happiness will no longer be the only way to work towards a Golden Age. I suspect for example that there will be a policy in the Honor or Autocracy trees that will also grant Golden Age points for units killed or cities captured, and maybe that the Uffizi Museum will grant Golden Age points for every Great Work you display.

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Make it harder to maintain Golden Ages while decreasing the time between them. I like it. However, this still doesn't cover the root of the nerf which is the dramatically reduced impact on gold income. If Golden Ages end up being +10 GPT and some defensive culture, they're not really gonna be worth the resources/effort (Social Policies, extra Happiness buildings, Wonders, etc.).

You still get a boost to production and to culture. It's also possible they'll rework it to also give bonuses to trade routes (at a minimum, domestic trade routes). I agree this could be a dramatic change, but we'll have to wait and see.

Bobert13 said:

Make it harder to maintain Golden Ages while decreasing the time between them. I like it. However, this still doesn't cover the root of the nerf which is the dramatically reduced impact on gold income. If Golden Ages end up being +10 GPT and some defensive culture, they're not really gonna be worth the resources/effort (Social Policies, extra Happiness buildings, Wonders, etc.).

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I think you will probably be able to collect Golden age points while in a Golden Age. Otherwise the Brazilian UU would disable its own ability.

I'm worried about the great artist split the most.

I think each great artist should be able to start a golden age.

Louis XXIV said:

You still get a boost to production and to culture. It's also possible they'll rework it to also give bonuses to trade routes (at a minimum, domestic trade routes). I agree this could be a dramatic change, but we'll have to wait and see.

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I somehow forgot about the Production boost, and while it's certainly notable, it's a drop in the bucket compared to the large influx of gold provided during the early game.

Leaving it unchanged will definitely break the Chichen Itza followed by Representation and then a free Great Artist from the Liberty finisher I usually strive for around turn 80 (with Persia and Egypt at least). I'm all for shakeups and new strategies but this seems like overkill to me. You can't rampage with upped Immortals if you don't have the gold to up them. And granted, Persia is pretty OP due to this strategy but this would take them from a Medieval super power down to a Medieval turtle Civ hoping that they're investment in Chichen Itza doesn't get them wiped out before it can pay off.

Calouste said:

I think you will probably be able to collect Golden age points while in a Golden Age. Otherwise the Brazilian UU would disable its own ability.

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They'll probably just allow non-Happiness based Golden Age points to accumulate. Assuming they aren't starting from scratch on the Happiness system as G&K pretty much removed any realistic limitations brought on by Happiness in it's current form.

Back in Civ III there was only one Golden Age per game, but it was a big occasion that you'd plan for. In Civ 5 the Golden Ages just keep coming, this alone means you take them for granted more.

Although at first I was unpleasantly surprised that with a Great General I couldn't set off a Golden Age anymore (since G & K), it's probably for the better that the amount of great persons, wonders, policies and other milestones that can set off a Golden Age are limited.

I rather have just a few Golden Ages per game, but with a big impact, than lots of them with a minor impact. If it becomes something you don't care for anymore, you might as well not have them in the game at all.

I don't see any reason to assume that the gold from International Trade Routes would not also be affected by Golden Ages.

I also think we are still getting some gold from road routes.

Optional said:

Although at first I was unpleasantly surprised that with a Great General I couldn't set off a Golden Age anymore (since G & K),

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A bit off-topic, but anyone else feel the great general is underwhelming compared to other great people in G&K? If you are pushing science, more great scientists is more science. If you are pushing culture or gold, same deal. But additional great generals just kind of... sit there. More generals beyond the first couple don't add anything extra like the other great people. An extra one or two is good for greater spread across larger military or fronts, but by the 4th general and beyond I find them to be a drain on unit maintenance and end up deleting them.

Citadel and land steal are decent abilities, but a bit contradictory. Those abilities are better in smaller turtle empires yet you get the most great generals by going out and conquering.

Add in things like the free generals from Brandenburg and Honor or buying them with faith from adopting Autocracy... the ability to get a large number of generals is there, just like the other great people, but there isn't any benefit to it.

Matthew. said:

A bit off-topic, but anyone else feel the great general is underwhelming compared to other great people in G&K? If you are pushing science, more great scientists is more science. If you are pushing culture or gold, same deal. But additional great generals just kind of... sit there. More generals beyond the first couple don't add anything extra like the other great people. An extra one or two is good for greater spread across larger military or fronts, but by the 4th general and beyond I find them to be a drain on unit maintenance and end up deleting them.

Citadel and land steal are decent abilities, but a bit contradictory. Those abilities are better in smaller turtle empires yet you get the most great generals by going out and conquering.

Add in things like the free generals from Brandenburg and Honor or buying them with faith from adopting Autocracy... the ability to get a large number of generals is there, just like the other great people, but there isn't any benefit to it.

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I agree with the problem with great Generals. Also they need to be in the middle of battle to be useful. If I'm expanding and get a great general in my capital he'll probably have to travel quite the distance unprotected only sit around once he gets to the front line.

Sweden can use them with their ability, but I'd like them to be able to do something else, especially in your own territory. Like what they did in Civ IV and bond to a unit as a warlord granting that unit special promotions and/or using them to make a unique building that helps with new military units.

Even in the front lines of instantly healing land units like the Admiral does to Naval units would be nice or expending a general to give a unit an xp boost.

Burn them for citadels to advance a siege closer to a well defended city.

Arguably, once you get a big airforce cities become easier to capture, but if you don't the oil for that or haven't built them yet or your enemy still has a reasonable army, capturing a big city can be very costly. Burning two GG allows you to tunnel right next to it and take the city with comparative ease.

Great generals are only for turtling? I can't agree with that. GGs are awesome in a domination game, where you can use them to start defensive wars that don't increase your warmonger rating (nothing gets a DOW as fast as a land steal), preemptively sieze strategic resources to cripple your opponent pre-DOW, position artillery right next to a city, start wars with a bang by dropping a citadel in the middle of enemy formations, etc. I can't get enough GGs.

Dogmouth said:

Great generals are only for turtling? I can't agree with that. GGs are awesome in a domination game, where you can use them to start defensive wars that don't increase your warmonger rating (nothing gets a DOW as fast as a land steal), preemptively sieze strategic resources to cripple your opponent pre-DOW, position artillery right next to a city, start wars with a bang by dropping a citadel in the middle of enemy formations, etc. I can't get enough GGs.

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This. GGs has multiple number of possibilities. Citadel is a really powerful ability. Sometimes you are focusing on one enemy, you can build a citadel on the other side of the empire to make sure that you don't get overwhelmed if someone back stabs you.

A little off topic. It would make a great dlc if they expanded the field general options. Greater diversity & specialised generals would make great number of possibilities. I actually posted an idea years back.

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