TSG 235 After Actions Thread

vadalaz

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In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game.

Quick links: Upload submission | Announcement thread | Opening Actions

- What was your approach to culture victory - did you play peacefully or warlike? Did you get Sacred Sites?
- Which Ideology did you choose?
- How useful were Brazilian uniques to you?
- Did you get Golden Age bonuses from Chichen Itza or Universal Suffrage?
- Did you use your Great Artists to create great works, or to start Golden Ages?
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
 
Culture victory T235 for GotM 235 :)

A regular Freedom tourism game, I did not consider Futurism or sacred sites here. As I write this, I'm reminded of the third-tier freedom policy that increases tourism output with 34% for cities with a broadcast tower - but I forgot to get broadcast towers in all my expands. In any case, that probably did not make a huge difference. Loading the game again, I just bought a Broadcast tower in Brasilia, and my total tourism output went from 893 to 896.

Continuing from the Opening Actions thread, I went 5 city tradition, and got Tithe, production, and mosques from the gem faith pantheon. I should have made this report directly after the game, because now I started another one, and do not have the autosaves anymore to check whether I went Astronomy first, or printing press first. A major decision around that time was to generate any engineers try to hard build all the renaissance wonders. Since I did not have a crazy Petra cap or something like it, I decided to generate an engineer and use it for Leaning Tower, then take another engineer for Sistine, while hard building Globe theatre in between. I'm not sure it was the correct decision, or whether I should have generated only scientists, but there is so much stuff to build in Renaissance, that I often take the early benefit of the engineers. As it was, my cap was still so busy I ended up losing Uffizi to a Dutch expand anyway.

After tradition I went straight into aesthetics. In other games, I frequently choose Patronage since the city state influence is so comfortable, and Forbidden Palace is a nice extra happiness boost, and a good grip on the World Congress to boot; or I go commerce to be able to buy schools and labs. In this game, I did not need the happiness from Patronage, but I did really miss the purchasing power of commerce. I have spoiled myself by often playing quick speed, legendary start and/or Lekmod, which has given me a certain expectation of what reasonable build times should be. However, on standard speed and with 'normal' cities, build times can be a shock: twelve turns for a factory? I usually bite the bullet and get all the production buildings as early as possible. Wind mills did not apply here because I settled all my cities on hills, but I did go industrialization first. Unfortunately, there was no coal to be had immediately. There was a node in Great General distance next to Kiev, but I had played peacefully, and Lhasa's coal already had a mine on it. As result, once I finally got coal, I had to build schools and factories at the same time. Oh, and World's Fair too. One good thing about this whole episode was that I noticed Maria enter Industrialization, and she had settled a city on a 3-coal node, so I could buy it off her straight away. I had a little gold saved, and I had some friendships with the AI, so I bought the factory, school, and later even hydro plant in the cap so it could continue to build infrastructure and attempt wonders, although Maria built the Louvre before I could consider opening exploration.

For my artists, I created great works from the first three, buy after that I bulbed them to keep the carnival going. I even ended up purchasing two with faith. I could really have used Chichen Itza here, but my going workshops first meant I did not have a chance for it: it was more or less built when I reached civil service. I would consider warring for it, only Morocco had built it and the other side of the map, along with some other wonders I might have liked such as Temple of Artemis. Perhaps another solution to the golden age problem might have been the Pracinha, but that unit just comes so late. I reached Plastics around turn 200 (10-turn research labs let's go!), and with the game ending 30 turns later, there is little scope to earn a whole golden age. America's minuteman comes at Gunpowder, that's much more reasonable timing.

One key decision in the middle game was for the second session of the World Congress to propose International Games. Sometimes I find it is beneficial to take breaks in between play sessions, and not finish a game in one sitting, so you have some time to reflect on how the game is going and how to proceed. The International Games idea came to me in such a break, and I realized it would require some preparation, as building Oxford was not simply a 1-turn build, but 4 turns after unworking some specialists. Bulbing a scientist and then finishing Oxford on the turn the Congress was in session, I was not sure whether I entered Radio early enough, but it turned out I could indeed propose it. When, some 30-odd turns later the vote was passed, I promptly forgot to work it! I only noticed when a building finished and I noticed it in the build options. I quickly switched all cities to IG, maxed out production, and for good measure instigated world wars by bribing all of the leaders to war each other. In the end I still got it comfortably: 1800 hammers vs 1000, but one turn more delay and I would have lost it.

The end of the game suggested I did not play Brazil optimally, and that it might be possible to push tourism quicker: I was influential with all just as I reached internet and completed national visitor center (meaning they were not really necessary), especially since my musicians were not maxed out. Finally, all civs were doing comparable in culture, so it was sufficient that I bulbed in Polynesia only. I therefore settled a 6th city, gifted it to Polynesia ("I must accept!"), and walked my musicians straight in there, since I still had open borders.
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Culture victory turn 210

I settled the gems for early gold, both natural and from peace deals. This worked out well because I got a shrine-free pantheon turn 14 after finding 2 religious CS's.

Early ruins were helpful this game: pop (2), 90g (5), archery (9), map (15), culture, and 60 faith (25).

I went 4 city tradition, then conquered Amsterdam for Chitzen Itza (very nice), and then opened aesthetics and added cheaper culture buildings before going rationalism and order. Salvador was my guild city so it got some food trade routes along with the capital, those these generally switched to production after workshops were up.

Milestones: NC turn 82, civil services (90), enhance religion 94 - religious community, reliquary added to tithe and pagodas), sci. theory (144), 165 world's fair passes. Then into international games.

On the home stretch I great engineered uffizi (from LToP), eiffel, and the and national visitor's center. Broadway was great engineered from the order 3rd tier bonus.

To wrap the game up I founded Fortaleza, gifted it to Kamehameha -> musician tour, then DoW'ed Kamehameha, 3 shots from artillery, captured, gifted to Ahmad -> musician tour #2, and won.


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Disclaimer: I gave up my first game around turn 160.

I went for a sacred sites strategy in my first game. It went really well, I was on track to win. I gave up that game around turn 160 because I made a crucial mistake: I stopped spamming cities when I had 9 of them. Sacred sites is an all in strategy, and stop spamming cities means tourism growth stops. Around turn 160 I was influential with everyone except morocco and polynesia, they had the most culture. I was at war with polynesia for a while, my strategy was to kill them and grand musician morocco. I was only gonna get one musician from completing liberty. A 2nd musician was very far away, hammers was really bad it was gonna take a long time to get musicians guild up. Then polynesia built the great wall. He had only his capital left, but it was untakable. I had a lot of crossbows but they did not have 3 range, and kamehameha had a galleas + crossbow in his cap, one shotting any of my units coming in. He was also not falling for the trick of bringing a wounded pikeman or swordsman in range. Normally they shoot for that but he kept shooting full HP crossbowmen. Since I stopped spamming cities my tourism growth was gone and I was not gonna win from polynesia for a very long time. My religion that game was tears of gods, initiation rites, mosques, monastaries, iternant preachers. Picking mosques first seemed like a good idea for the 3 faith, get that snowball running faster, but the 1 happiness is just too low when ICS-ing. 2nd prophet the other religious buildings were gone.

Since this map was quite fun and I did a 2nd try, in which I corrected some things. I took pagoda's first. 2nd prophet there was still cathedrals. Even though they give only 1 faith, the 1 happiness is better. Every city I spam can have 3 happiness and thus population from the start. With collosseums 5 and with circus 7. So this game most of my cities grew to 3, then 5 and stagnated to create a much better economy. I also didn't stop spamming cities. I went into war with the Dutch for some space, then France and Polynesia dow-ed me. Made peace with the dutch after I planted 3 more cities close to him, and then sent my army trough Ur (my ally) and prague toward Paris. In the end I surrounded Paris with my own cities, while pummeling paris with outdated but decent promoted units. Polynesia wanted peace quite fast, and a bit later even went after France too.

All enemies fell to my tourism when my 2nd golden age kicked in after i built most faith buildings. Only polynesia was gonna take like 6 turns longer. Luckily a great writer popped out, i bulbed him and finished liberty with that, spawned a great musician, moved him to one of my cities, gave that city to polynesia and toured him to a win at turn 145.
- What was your approach to culture victory - did you play peacefully or warlike? Did you get Sacred Sites?
Sacred Sites + war for space for more cities.
- Which Ideology did you choose?
Didn't get that far. I just got education tech and was going for machinery, it was gonna take a while before ideology.
- How useful were Brazilian uniques to you?
The tourism bonus is amazing for sacred sites!
- Did you get Golden Age bonuses from Chichen Itza or Universal Suffrage?
No, Sacred Sites ICS spam cannot win Chichen Itza. Morocco got it. If the game dragged on enough and I beat closer civs to pulp eventually might have gotten around to morocco, but they were like the furthest away civ.
- Did you use your Great Artists to create great works, or to start Golden Ages?
No great artist spawned yet, was building that guild around win time.
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
13 minus 1 gifted to polynesia. Settled in optimal ICS fashion so that 2 cities can be connected by just 4 roads. When both sattelite cities are 2 pop and capital is 6 pop it's already a net positive gold.

In this game I focussed on scouting at the start. I had 4 scouts, searching all CSes as soon as possible. Since sacred sites gets such a horsehockey economy i needed all the CS help i could get. I used those scouts to kill barb camps in pairs, netting me like 5 alliances, which was quite important this game.
Tears of the gods was also very important. The early expands all went to spots that had gems, to get that faith engine running. My population was at the start very focussed on working those gems tiles, many times swapping the tiles between cities, depending on for who it was optimal to work it.
My faith first went to 2 natural spawned prophets, a 2nd faith building is crucial. I theorized that any other way of getting 2nd prophet (piety finisher, liberty finisher, hagia sophia) was gonna be far too slow.

Spoiler :
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Won turn 357. Not exactly a fast victory.

I had low production and missed all the Renaissance wonders. I probably shouldn't have gone Acoustics first but rather take Printing Press for Pisa, then GE'd Sistine chapel. But I wanted to get the Brazilwood camps online.

In turn 268 I got double DOWed by Portugal and France, who were both culture runaways. Together, they were allied with all the city states around me, so I had to fight on many fronts. Portugal didn't share a border with me and only sent some ships that I took care of, but the war with France with a slow grind that I couldn't get the upper hand in. They had too many cities. Also I didn't have any oil for planes.

At least I got to finally fight a late game war. I've never before fought with Xcoms, I usually don't get that far in the tech tree except when I'm just about to win a science victory.

In the end, I got 4 great musicians (2 faith bought, 1 organic, and 1 from Liberty finisher) and sent 3 to culture bomb France, and 1 to Portugal. That got me over the finish line.
 

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Turn 329 culture victory.

Reading the reports I'm wondering, why I've missed Tears of the Gods when I got pantheon quite early. In general after the 100 turn it all was just micromanagement of cities in the goal of building wonders. I've tried to entertain myself with geopolitics, so i paid to France for a war with Polynesia, take their city near me, than Napo annihilated them, everybody hated him, so there was big war of everybody against him. My idea was to revive Polynesia to mitigate my warmongering penalties as well as weaken Napo, who was second in cultural development after Morocco. It went not so good. Then at the time I've got Prasinnias Inca and Morocco declared on me. It was fun to use special unit, but I'm not sure there was any point in it - it seems golden age was from the social policies anyway. I've took Petra city (north from Salvador) from Inca and got a peace deal with them, but continued war with Morocco with the idea to took Marrakesh, where was like 10 wonders and in general Morocco was culture runaway. It took me a long time to organize naval invasion and it also went terribly wrong.

So I've peaced out and finished the game in several turns with international games - carnival - concert tours. So it seems without all this fighting the game would took like 50 turns less.

- What was your approach to culture victory - did you play peacefully or warlike? Did you get Sacred Sites?
Sort of warlike. No.

- Which Ideology did you choose?
Freedom

- How useful were Brazilian uniques to you?
I've used them, but not optimally.

- Did you get Golden Age bonuses from Chichen Itza or Universal Suffrage?
no

- Did you use your Great Artists to create great works, or to start Golden Ages?
Both. And I think in the wrong order :D

- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
Settled 3, conquered another 3


Thinking to try to replay the map with Sacred Sites strategy. If the goal is quickest time this path seems to be best.
 
I lost this one by literally 1 turn. (see the screenshots.) I was the science leader by a wide margin, but while I was researching Future Tech over and over, the AIs caught up and the Inca launched the spaceship the turn before I was going to be influential with the last civ (Morocco) I don't know why the spaceship part wasn't destroyed when William nuked Cusco; perhaps it finished building the next turn after he nuked it -- my diplomat wasn't paying attention.

I did 5-city Tradition, into Aesthetics and Rationalism. Freedom ideology mainly for Universal Suffrage. The Prachina (sp?) were useful when Napoleon declared war, but really no more useful than normal infantry. I used the first few great artists for great works, then bulbed the rest for continuous golden ages.

I'm going to reload a save from a few dozen turns back and make sure I have maximum theming bonuses to see if it makes a difference.

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Edit: I did not have all the theming bonuses maxed-out, but close. It's possible that would have made a difference but I doubt it. But I noticed that I didn't have a diplomat in Marrakech like I thought I did; that definitely would have shaved a few turns off and that's all I needed. D'oh!!
 
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Edit: I did not have all the theming bonuses maxed-out, but close. It's possible that would have made a difference but I doubt it. But I noticed that I didn't have a diplomat in Marrakech like I thought I did; that definitely would have shaved a few turns off and that's all I needed. D'oh!!

I backed up 12 turns and moved a diplomat to Marrakech, then waited for him to finish "making introductions" (which took up a lot of those 12 turns) before sending 2 great musicians to the Inca. This time I won on turn 397 instead of losing on 398. (oddly, Pachacuti did not build the last spaceship part this time, he was busy building another military unit for the war with William, and William did not nuke Cusco)

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Replayed the map after reading about Sacred Sites strategy. Much more fun then usual wonder slog! Got turn 175 win with the concert tour of musician to France from Liberty finisher. My fastest win of all time!

Interesting, that Polynesia, which was annihilated at my first attempt, now was a leader leaving Portugal with just a capital and successfully pressing france.
 
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Culture victory turn 210

I settled the gems for early gold, both natural and from peace deals. This worked out well because I got a shrine-free pantheon turn 14 after finding 2 religious CS's.

Early ruins were helpful this game: pop (2), 90g (5), archery (9), map (15), culture, and 60 faith (25).

I went 4 city tradition, then conquered Amsterdam for Chitzen Itza (very nice), and then opened aesthetics and added cheaper culture buildings before going rationalism and order. Salvador was my guild city so it got some food trade routes along with the capital, those these generally switched to production after workshops were up.

Milestones: NC turn 82, civil services (90), enhance religion 94 - religious community, reliquary added to tithe and pagodas), sci. theory (144), 165 world's fair passes. Then into international games.

On the home stretch I great engineered uffizi (from LToP), eiffel, and the and national visitor's center. Broadway was great engineered from the order 3rd tier bonus.

To wrap the game up I founded Fortaleza, gifted it to Kamehameha -> musician tour, then DoW'ed Kamehameha, 3 shots from artillery, captured, gifted to Ahmad -> musician tour #2, and won.


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Your pantheon belief, was it Sacred path? It seemed like a no-brainer to me, so I’m curious about possible alternatives. Well done, btw.
 
I chose tears of the gods and leveraged that for a religion.
Sacred path means 1 culture for every single jungle tile, and there was a huge amount of jungle. I thought it sounded great but it did mean poor production, and also less food bonuses if you chose not to improve the bananas in order to preserve the culture on those tiles. In fact, I lost this game in a tight culture race. I might have over-valued culture tiles because I did suffer from the low production. I did get sacred sites, but it came in rather late since I also fiddled with other policies.
 
Culture Victory - Turn 350, 1931

First turn - moved settler to hill next to mountain and river.
I don't recall building three scouts before, but it worked well. Discovered several goodie huts and:
- stole workers from France and Portugal on the same turn (21) he, he.
- stole another worker from The Incas, 'cuz why not.
France and The Netherlands declared war on turn 88.
Made fifth city to keep others away.
Hawaii sniped Hanging Gardens on same turn, and I lost out on several other wonders.
The Incans were strong. They took out France and the Netherlands. I stayed friendly with them and luckily ended up with the same ideology (Freedom). They also had a lot of culture and tourism to overcome.
Everybody else declared war near the end game when tourism multipliers took effect, but none were threatening.

Earned Pedro's Party People achievement (image).

- What was your approach to culture victory - did you play peacefully or warlike? Did you get Sacred Sites?
Peaceful, except for stealing workers, and used Sacred Sites, but didn't support religion enough.
- Which Ideology did you choose?
Freedom, and it wasn't as effective as I thought it would be.
- How useful were Brazilian uniques to you?
Lots of Brazilwood Camps helped to snowball culture and used Pracinhas just a little.
- Did you get Golden Age bonuses from Chichen Itza or Universal Suffrage?
Universal Suffrage, yes. Had trouble obtaining world wonders.
- Did you use your Great Artists to create great works, or to start Golden Ages?
Great works, and one Golden Age but should have done more. I didn't earn as many great people as I anticipated.
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
Five.
 

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