LK67 - Demigod, 20K city, Byzantine

The civ is the Byzantines - they have yet to be played in a LK series game. Scientific gives us two cheap culture buildings.

I will make this my typical small world - 40% land, roaming barbs, continents.
I decide for laughs to enter the seed of 20K to start the game.


3950 BC
I generally hate wasting worker moves to pop a hut, but I would rather do it now before we have military. The map we get confirms a nearby coastal, river spot for city #2.


3450 BC
An Incan scout walks over to say hello. We ship him Alphabet and $9, and get Masonry in return. Our exploring warrior meets a Russia scout and ships Kathy Alphabet for $60 and Burial.


3350 BC
It did pay to keep an eye on Russia with us having Masonry. Russia just got Warrior Code which I acquire for Masonry and $28. Now if the Inca would get something since we are two techs ahead of them...


3150 BC
We clear a barb camp to close to our 20K target zone. The Inca just picked up both techs we had.


2800 BC
Andrianople, our 20K city is formed. A temple due in 30 turns is ordered up. We need that border expansion to pick up two floodplains, and two bonus grasslands.

Summary:
I played a very atypical start. I pushed to get our 20K city going ASAP above all. I have one worker improving that city tiles already. Constantinople got a worker to help it out, and we are just starting a granary in that city.


LKendter
Bede (currently playing)
Rubberjello (on deck)
T-hawk
hotrod0823

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK67-2550BC.zip

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Rape - if you have to ask...

RoP Abuse that includes things such as irrigating all tiles with a city building wonders, denying resources with a RoP, putting a unit to block a land bridge, etc.

Scout resource denial - parking a scout on a resource, as the AI won't ask scouts to leave. The same scenario also applies to workers.

False Peace Treaties (must wait for the 20 years to end).

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

Resources disconnect / connect exploit - I consider most resource tactics fine. Delaying to hook a resource, trading it away etc is fine. The exploit is to do this every turn. Build a stack of horses, connect saltpeter, upgrade to cavalry, and disconnect.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.


Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.
2) No worker purchases during the first 50 turns to avoid civ crippling.
3) Declaring war / demanding leave solely for the purpose of getting out of trade deals. This includes nonsense spying simply to force a war. Stealing techs is fine.
4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.
5) Our trading reputation is golden - please respect it.
6) Complete your turn. It is frustrating to get a 1/2 completed turn.

Got it.

Play tonight.

Ah, I didn't see this thread was here, but now I do. (I had thought this game was to be LK68.)

You didn't post any pictures, but it sounds like your start was fine for a 20k off-capital city. One wants to get the goal city built and building a temple ASAP. A wonder should be next of course, most likely the Colossus or possibly straight to the Great Library; we'll see what develops.

Our starting lands, our 20K city is on the right.

The Save

LK67 2550BC
Two cities built
Two workers
Building temple (Adrianople) and Granary (Constantinople)
Incan borders to N
Can't see Russians.
Treasury 60g+8 Math in 50
Russia has learned how to write and sold it to Inca.

Spices visible to SE of Adrianople.

2510BC
Dinghy finds Russian warrior in south.

2470BC
Incans have built another town.

2430
Inca up IW, mortgaging the economy won't buy it. Russians have lots of gold, expect they'll have it next.

2350
Worker finishes mine at Adrianople, moves on to next riverside grassland

2310
Mapping continues.
Russians still don't have IW. Inca still doubtful on sale.

2270
Inca warriors show up heading south at Adrianople.
Inca still won't sell IW.
Russians start Colussus

2230
Inca warriors head east.
Inca still won't sell IW.

2190
Inca still won't sell IW.

2150BC
Dinghy finds two barb galleys in SW, sails out of range

Inca have wheels, doubtful on sale. Russia lacks both IW and Wheel.

Worker at Constantiople is in forest ready to road or chop as appropriate.

Could start Colussus in Adrianople as pre-build for ToZ (4cp and free military), once temple finishes and assuming we can find ivory in reach. Research on Maths could be cranked up to match build to research rate without hurting the economy.

Some pictures

After the temple, I see Colussus as the next big target. The extra revenue will help, and the 3cp is pretty easy to get as the AI usually starts it in a weak city.

============================

LKendter
Bede
Rubberjello (currently playing)
T-hawk (on deck)
hotrod0823

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

Sorry for the delay. I was going to play tonight, but just got a call from work. I will have to go in and fix some stuff. Hopefully will be able to quickly finish it up tomorrow.

but just got a call from work. I will have to go in and fix some stuff.

Click to expand...

That stinks! Glad to here I am not the only one that gets the calls to go in from the off shifts. My wife and I are glad we aren't running 24hrs these days.

Pre-turn: The usual tech hole. Down Writing, Iron Working, and the Wheel. Incans look very strong (6 cities already?)

2110 (1) We sink the first Barb galley, but the second one sinks our valiant Curragh.

2070 (2) through 1990 (3) Nothing. Raise luxes so Adrianople doesn't riot.

1950 (4) Forest chop completes, Granary completed, Curragh started.

1910 (5) Temple in Adrianople completes. Colossus started. Incas establish an embassy with us. Lux goes back down.

1870 (6) thru 1830(7) Curragh completes, Settler. No tech opportunities. Portugal finishes Colossus Switch to Pyramids for now.

1790 (8) Incans extort 30 gold from us. We cave of course. Russians switch to the Oracle.

1750 (9) lux tax increased.

1725 (10) Eeek! I told you guys we shoulda started on Emporer! Incans have at least 7 cites. Cap needs to be MM to synch up pop growth and settler due in 3.


Start digging us out, T-hawk!

Colossus already built by Portugal? Well, that's a surprise. Our wonder should probably turn into Zeus (if possible, but that's unlikely) or just go directly for the Great Library.

I see it, not sure when I can get to it but probably tomorrow afternoon.

Sorry for the delay, folks. Here we go.

Man, this is gonna be a tough row to hoe. Far behind the Incans' city count, no luxuries, middling-at-best terrain, no food bonuses in sight at all.

Adrianople's worker has spent one turn mining a non-bonus BG. Not optimal; I wake it and get it irrigating a flood plain instead. I realize the city's border just expanded to include the good tiles, but one can think ahead and get the worker improving good tiles ahead of time.

Diplo and MM: nothing to do. There isn't any MM to do at Constantinople to speed anything.

==========

Early turns: Knock off a damaged barb curragh. Constant builds settler, starts warrior.

Inca declares war on the Russians!!!! :jump:

Middle: Constant builds a second warrior. Southeast curragh finds another continent that's reachable safely.

Late: Caesarea founded on the north end of our river, no overlap with Incan cities.

Picture:



Lux tax needs to be raised next turn when Adrianople grows. Constantinople does not need more worker labor at the moment, because it's not going to grow above size 3-4 anytime soon. Have both workers improve Adrian's bonus grasslands instead. Keep Adrian working both flood-plains tiles to grow as fast as it can.

No idea yet what wonder will get; it'll depend on who our curragh finds to trade with and what techs we can get. I did no trading. The Inca have gotten Mathematics but Russia doesn't have it yet.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/lk67-1500bc.zip

I've got it

I realize the city's border just expanded to include the good tiles, but one can think ahead and get the worker improving good tiles ahead of time.
I know what you are talking about. I had the bonus grassland being worked on before the 20K city was built.

-------------------------------------

LKendter (on deck)
Bede
Rubberjello
T-hawk
hotrod0823 (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

LK67

1500 BC (0): We are off and running and as per usual have a deep hole to climb out of. Short term goals are to continue improving the 20K city and pray for a Wonder. Also, searching for other contacts to open up some new trading avenues. Will try to get a town to claim the Lux in the East but have concerns about land closer to home going the way of the Iroquios. Well time to consult T-Hawks notes again. What was that about land across the water? We are going to need another fishing town to get a fleet to move units West. I think a small town to the NW may be in the works. Math is still too expensive hope for trades.

1475 BC (1): Some movement. Up Lux to 10%. Should really turn the Caragh around and head north but we are in the south so I press on toward the West.

1450 BC (2): More of the same.

1425 BC (3): Ditto

1400 BC (4): Irrigation of second FP is complete start roads and then will join the other worker on the BG.

1375 BC (5): Constantinople builds a settler start a warrior. Sending a warrior/settler pair north. Kill a barb galley barely.

1350 BC (6): OMG! The Mayans completed the pyramids. Swapped Adrianople to the oracle. Incas now have Poly and we can buy Math for all our gold. We have 14 turns left on our own research. And I really don't want to mortage everything just yet.

1325 BC (7): Inca start ToA. Constantinople builds a warrior starts a settler. Russia goes to Oracle and Great Lighthouse. Still no contact. Settler/warrior pair are in position for a little fishing village N of the captial. Lux to 20%. The Math deal is still open but we are 13 turns away from our own research and we will be left penniless if I deal.

IBT: Russia wants to Teach us the Wheel for a mear 160 gold. I decline.

1300 BC (8): Caesarea builds a worker starts or first barracks. Found Nicea start a worker. Where is everyone??? Still no contacts halfway across the map. Russia is still Mathless So i'll continue to hold out.

IBT: [dance] Finally! A yellow warrior comes out of the fog.

1275 BC (9): They are up Math, Poly, Iron Working, Wheel, but lack writing . Yeh! Pay 100 gold and 2gpt to Egpyt for Math. She has but we can't afford Currency. Trade Math and 45 gold to Russia for Writing. It takes shutting off research but Send Cleo 250 gold, 12gpt and Writing for Currency. Currency to russia for Code of Laws and 70 gold. Code of Laws and Currency to Inca for Map Making and Philosophy and 65 gold. Map Making to Cleo for Iron Working and Polytheism and 100 gold. She has Monarchy but will not trade. Philosophy to cleo for Wheel and 150 gold. Code of Laws to Cleo for HBR and 325 gold. 2 New Embassies Moscow is 4 turns from the Oracle. Thebes is 118 from ToA. [dance] of joy, Move the boat 3 spaces and hit the Maya. Trade Currency, Writing and 290 gold to Maya for Monarchy. Sell him Map Making for 240 gold. New Embassy with Maya. Change Adrianople to HG.

1250 BC (10): I did not Revolt but we can to Monarchy if we wish. Egpyt just started HG. I have research off but we can take a shot at Lit or go straight for Republic. I did not trade Monarchy to the Inca but we can.

Here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads7/lk67-1250bc.zip

PS. Forgot to note we have local horses and iron is near by in the East.

LKendter (currently playing)
Bede (on deck)
Rubberjello
T-hawk
hotrod0823

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

Nice going on the trading, Hotrod!

Revolting to Monarchy is a tough call. I've no idea how long it might take for Republic to become available, or for us to afford it. Monarchy would get Adrianople running quite a bit faster, by getting extra food from each of the flood-plains tiles (double the food surplus - like a free granary), lowering its corruption, and letting us irrigate grasslands. Finally, we could also irrigate Constantinople and get it bootstrapped up from its lowly +2 food surplus.

I think I'd do the Monarchy revolt. We're small, so the anarchy should be 4-5 turns or less, and we're only getting 2 culture/turn anyway right now. If so, we'd probably stay in Monarchy for a while and look to Democracy later. (We're going to want Democracy tech anyway to get up to Shakespeare.)

Hanging Gardens is a good choice for our first wonder. Hopefully the cascade will end before Literature comes around, and we can get the Great Library next. Hopefully.

Yes! Kudos for the tech trades Hotrod. Sometimes those new contacts come along in the exact nick of time!
I vote for Monarchy revolt also. Depotism is more a detriment then waiting for eventual Republic.

1250 BC
I thought this looked like a great start for 20K. However, our civ is dying big time with zero resources / luxuries. I will revolt to Monarchy in 3 turns. I want that settler out to claim more land before I revolt.

IMHO this is turning out to be a horrid city for 20K. We are way to shield poor at this time.


1200 BC
(IT) Our scouting ship is now done to 1 HP.
I saw an Incan CS win, so they are in there GA.
Moscow completes the Oracle.


1175 BC
I order up our revolution. We draw a mere 3 turns.
Even the flood plains won't let me avoid starvation in our 20K city. It is time for the annoying riot / no riot game.


1150 BC
(IT) The Incas complete the Temple of Artemis. This is not the civ I want to have extra culture.
The Mayan's complete the Hanging Gardens.


1125 BC
We are so screwed, and I set our city to the garbage culture rated Great Lighthouse.
(IT) We are even more screwed as Egypt completes the Mausoleum of Mausollos.


1100 BC
(IT) The Maya begin the great wall.


1050 BC
(IT) We add Egypt to the list building the great wall.


1025 BC
Varna is formed, and we have a source of spices.


1000 BC
I have no clue why, but we have contact with Portugal.
Russia has a single worker for sale. I think Polytheism is worth more then a single worker, and we need the cash to rush buildings.


Summary:
This is a disaster so far. We can't win 20K without some ancient wonders, and too many have gone away. I just hope the tide starts breaking in our favor soon.

We need to get enough cities to build the FP. That would help our 20K city with culture and corruption.


LKendter
Bede (currently playing)
Rubberjello (on deck)
T-hawk
hotrod0823

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK67-1000BC.zip

You should go for Great Library and Shakespear.

What's the known highest level of 20K win? Emperor?