RBC-14G The Barbaric Incans (Age of Discovery - Emperor)

Sir Bugsy

Civ.D.
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Version C3C patch 1.15

And so it begins. The Incan adventure in the RBCiv Age of Discovery Scenario.



Here is our start position:



Looking into our city:



Here is our science situation:



Our UU is the Chasqui Scout which has enslavement. It is 1.1.1, but treats all terrain as roaded.

Since Grimjack is without a doubt our most veteran player, we’ll give him the honors of going first. Since Bede is on holiday until Friday, I’ll take the number two slot.

Grimjack
Bugs
Kiech
Bede

We’re open for a fourth player.

Oh, and the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G_-_Start.zip
 
I wouldn't mind joining this one, although understand that I just got myself up to Monarch difficulty, and slowly weaning off of the governor for help. But you guys are really good at dissussion in these games, so I don't think it will be a problem.
 
Kiech, welcome aboard. I think you'll learn a lot. Since you're only playing 10 turns at a pop, you can't completely mess up the game. (although I almost did in the RBC13H game. :rolleyes: )
 
Hmm, timed out on my reply earlier.

I will see if I can kick this off soonish, although I do not necessarily agree on the most experienced bit :)

I need to do some math after looking at the various options for culture.

This is emperor, so I assume OCC Single City Culture is off the table ;)
( The option where you do not build more cities ever. Just use the starting one. )

Grimjack
 
I knew I had overlooked something :)

I will still assume our culture city will be our cap though, as no other city will be able to reach 4000 without massive sacrifice.
 
I agree that the capitol should be the 20K city. I don't think we could pull off a OCC on Emperor. We'll need too many Chasquis to enslave the numbers we'll need. Enslaving barbs should be profitable. Run our Chasquis throughout South America, and then let the barbs camps generate. Then farm the barbs for slaves. We should be able get a few that way.
 
First, start by mapping outr governments, hoping to see a possibility to get a money rushing one.
1) despotism, as usual
2) Blood Cult – Like despotism, but more unit support and somewhat less corruption. I see no reason to ever enter this, given we are not religious. Remember we will not get culture during anarchy. If despotism tile penalty had been removed, this would have been a great government.
3) With Theology comes Catholic Monarchy. It is like the normal Monarchy except corruption is worse.
4) Protestants, worker efficiency goes up, but unit support goes down. It is available with Protestantism.
I think we should aim for Theology and Catholic Monarchy. We are not likely to reach Protestantism in time for it to make a difference. Theology is on a part of the tech tree we very much want, as there is Monotheism and Education.

Cultural buildings: I will list shield cost, culture and tech. I will start from the easy techs.
Ancient Age
Coliseum -- 120/2 -- Construction three techs away
Library -- 80/2 -- Storytelling three techs away
Ball Court -- 150/8 -- Ball games one tech away ( Already built. )
Temple of the Moon -- 300/8 – Blood Cult -- One tech away, gives two free techs
Temple of the Sun -- 400/10 – Blood Cult -- One tech away, Universal Suffrage+Battlefield
Temple of Cuculcan -- 400/8 -- Body Ornamentation -- Two techs away.

Middle Ages -- I assume we wont get any wonders here. It is mainly possible if we happen to get a Scientific leader.
Cathedral -- 160/3 -- Monotheism seven techs away
University -- 200/3 -- Education nine techs away


Age of Exploration
Colonial Capital -- 200/2 -- Middle of Exploration tree.

I wont go into Renaissance now, as I have no idea if a New World player ever gets into this age.

I can see two paths here. Either we go all out and see if we can nab Temple of the Moon. We need to get some regular tech by trading so we can get a prebuild going. Blood cult will need to be researched ASAP by ourselves. I do not think we can nab two of the wonders in our culture city though, so after that it is Library and Coliseum.

Other choice is to go up the regular tech tree, and get Library/Coliseum asap. Contacts would be hugely beneficial for this, and we are not situated very well for getting them.
( Central America is likely to be blocked once we reach it. )

I am leaning towards the Moon gambit, as two free techs could be huge if we have come a bit on the regular tree. ( We could get the expensive native techs and use as trade bait, or we could get to Construction really fast. )

I will let the team come with some opinions/thoughts before proceeding though.
Grimjack
 
We can get Cusco to eight spt. Thats some 40 turns building for Temple of the Moon.

The river hill to the southeast looks like the only option for our settler. This will bring the ability to irrigate the plains, letting Cusco grow to size 5.
 
I also like the Moon gambit. We will only be competing against the American civs, and they will have their hands full of Europeans quite soon.
 
We can take Panama if we want with our first (with luck the second!) settler to keep the Mayans from moving in on our territory. Plus it will secure a source of gems for us. The only problem is that it will hamper our research in the beginning a little bit.

LOL good call on the river hill. I am a little claustrophobic, so I completely missed that. Heh, there is only one other square that can be irrigated without creative city placement...but we need lots of workers...I guess we can build scouts in lieu of spearmen and try farming all of those barbarians. Which brings me to the last question, should we destroy the barb camps or leave them be to provide us with defence vs the white people & hopefully more slaves?
 
Hmm, after getting our first city to bring irrigation to Cuzco, we need to eliminate that jungle tile quickly. In my scenario where we grab Panama, the Mayans still beat us to Blood onamentation, despite the fact that they are landlocked.

Getting contacts with at least the Mayans right away is our key to trading techs with the white people. And we need to trade at least maps every single turn to keep up with everyone. Oh, and we will meet the Spanish earlier if we hang out near Panama as well.

The barbarians are very mean in this game. It is tough to deal with them using only the scouts, let alone farm them.
 
Oh, do we REALLY need the courthouse in Cuzco? That would save us a lot of money in the long run.
 
I sold the courthouse when I looked at the save, just to prevent me from forgetting to do this when I start to play in a couple of hours.

Interesting that we could get a speed settler and snatch Panama. I never thought of that.

I will have to ponder a bit when I play later.
Grimjack

Ps, I have no intention of reseraching Blood Ornamentation by myself. Only way to get it would be if we get it for free from Moon. It is such a great risk on all the shields needed. I think the shields will be safer in Library,Coloseum and Cathedral.
( Now should we get Moon and a Science leader... )
 
RBC14G, Incan supremacy.

1490(0) I will start on the road to a temple of the moon gambit.
Sacrificing workers will be saved as a last resort, not to be done unless absolutely necessary to reach the cultural goal.
If we need to sacrifice workers, I would consider the game a draw unless it is impossible to reach single city culture before game ends.

I send out our Chasquis in several directions, and start work on an spearman. Siad spearman are supposed to guard workers from barbarians.

Research is full speed on Blood Cult. I am counting on our superior trading skills and barb camps to supply the 200 we do not have :)
On second thought, I set Cusco on worker. It is twenty turns before we can prebuild, so Cusco ought to have grown back by then.

1491(1) Scouts find iron to the far south. Another scouting pair frag a camp right next to us, but despite two victories, no new worker. I am surprised by the worker only eneding one turn to road the grasslands. This shaves two turns off of research as well.

1492 I heal the barb hunters, and send the southern and northern scouts on their way. The northern scout has as goal to reach Panama before it is blocket, and he is not to deviate until he has the contacts we need.
Southern scout is also not to engage barbarians, as he is mapping for some value to our maps when we meet the Europeans.

1493 Tiwanaku is founded on the hills to get water to the two irrigation targets. Worker starts to irrigate. Tiwanaku is set to granary. It is supposed to get all our new workers/settlers once we start to build culture in Cusco.
Despite what I just said about our scouts, I cannot resist a lone archer on the plains, and we get our first captured worker.
Irrigation is three turns, also an odd number.
Blood cult is down to 24 turns, so not to destroy growth in Cusco, I switch worker to spear.

1494 I reach Panama with our first scout. I will send a second scout towards this, in case we want to send a settler here.

1495 One of our interior scouts nets us another slave. Lets hope he can reach home.
I spot green borders in the north, but no contact. ( Not even with ctrl-shift-D)

1496 We have contact with the Mayans, and of course no trades are possible.

1497 Complete a spearman, and start another. Discover mines are a four turn build.
I can almost traverse the Mayan lands, but almost is not good enough. I hope he wont kick me out though.
I think of something sneaky, and I sell our granary. Cusco can only reach size 5 this side of Catholicism, and I would rather merge captured workers than letting it grow by itself.
Also an even more important benefit is that we now have a 60 shield prebuild.

1498 Spot the dark green borders in the north, and we have contact with the Aztecs.
Get another worker and 25 gold from fragging a camp. There are a lot of camps, and as far as I know, new ones can sprout. If new ones cannot sprout, then perhaps we need to change tactics.
I find horses way south in Argentine.

1499 Scout some more.

1500 Even more scouting. I kill a barbarian on the plains, but no worker.

1501 We manage to get past the Aztec lands as well. No sign of the rumoured white devils though.

IBT: Well, speaking of the devil, here they come. Isabella offers Alphabet for 100 gold, but I decline. This would interfere with our own research. Then William and Elizabeth does the same. At the end, all five Europeans offered of the same 100 gold for Alphabeth.

1502 Mayans and Aztecs both used up their money buying into Alphabet.
The Europeans are fairly unanimous, and I sell our world map to Netherlands for 1 gpt and Alphabet + territory map.
I notice Aztecs are up Writing and currency as well. Mayans have neither tech.
Iroqs are up Currency, and I smell a good twofer.
With Spain I get Writing for Mayan Contact, world map and 32 gold.
Hmm, Currency was doubtful with the Iroqs.
I get Mapmaking from the Portugese for 8 gpt and 28 gold. Since we are building Temple of the Moon, There was no use for Storytelling. Map Making will let us trade maps with the natives, and clean out everyones treasury.
I get Currency, world map and 25 gold from the Mayans for Map Making.
World map and 3 gold from Iroqs for Writing.
Get 101 gold from England for World map.
Get World map and 55 gold from Isabella for World map.

I proceed to sell stuff around, and at the end of the day, we have 317 gold, complete world map, and running -12 gpt instead of -6. We can buy any tech we want, but I save money, to make sure next tech is at least a twofer.

1503 That’s new. I spot a barbarian camp guarded by a pikeman. I put a citizen to work in the goldmine, and we cut Blood cult to nine turns. Granary is a ten turn prebuild, so I start that. We lose one food, but we have some 12 stored, so I do not see that as a problem.
I earn some 40 gold selling new world maps to people.

IBT: Hmm, the pikeman attacks, but the archer stays at home defending.

1504 Kill the barb camp on the plains. I am not comfortable on the odds of a regular Chasqui attacking fortified units on hills.

1505 More scouting. Make 40 gold selling maps.

You may want to move out a spear to guard our goldmine from the barbarian. Be aware you will need to either move the scout from our other city, or get a lux tax to keep Cusco from rioting.
Here is the save, take us to glory

It is a bit of time before we can build our first settler, so it may be premature for a dotmap. Jungles are 48 turns to clear for slaves, so it might be better to merge them into cities, and get real workers instead. I would prefer to settle along the rivers, to get some river trade, although snagging iron and horses would be good too.
All in all, this is easliy one of the worst starting positions I have ever seen.
It will be the end of the game before we get productive.



Grimjack
 
Great trading Grimjack!

I have the save. I'll play this evening. That jungle is going to be a killer.
 
Nice job Grimjack! A very ideal start!

Its a shame we can't build on the jungles. Since I haven't done one before, I thought I would throw out a map of the situation:



The rubber is not very convienent to grab...but follow the line to the north and stop before the jungle. The grapes and peter are pretty easy, just follow the line south till you are on the hills, and go one square E to a plains with a lake. I agree that we are probably the worst off of all of the civs in this game. The red X's are nice little spots for a settler to plop down, but the northern X should be down on the list. There are horses to the far south of us, but unless we get a nice road system up, they won't be useful.

As far as the barbs go, pikemen replace the horsemen in this game, and the archers replace the warriors. That is why the barbarians are acting funny. Just be forwarned that when we get the 'massive barbarian uprising' message, it means that 15 or so pikemen have popped up on the board.

Cowtown is probably the best possible place for us to have on the entire map. Hills with rivers, 2 iron right next to each other, 2 cows, gold mountain, and bonus grass and very little jungle. There are gems and peter NE of there, with sugar, a gold hill, some fish. We could get several really nice towns in that area, if we are quick. I think this is probably more important than the rubber spot.
 
I have it. I have two more turns to play and then I'll post. Should have it up shortly.
 
Pre-flight – 1505 AD – Wait and see where the barb will go before moving a spear.

Nothing on the diplomatic front.

These lands stink to high heaven.

1. 1506 AD – Fortify our Chasqui at Panama. Move workers to gold mountain.

IBT - Spanish start Leo’s.

2. 1507 AD – Collect 25G from a barb camp. Science drops 10%. BC due in 4.
The Maya have gotten currency, but still don’t have writing.

3. 1508 AD – Not a lot.

IBT – French start Magellan’s

4. 1509 AD – Aztecs have CoL. I can get Construction for 289G & WM from Portugal. Liz will give it to me for 280G & WM. William offers 275G and WM. Execute that deal. Get Col & WM for Construction from Aztecs.

IBT – Portuguese build Sistine Chapel.

5. 1510 AD – Move workers to BG. Science comes down to 80%.

IBT – Blood Cult comes in. Body Ornamentation next. Switch Cuzco to Temple of the Moon, due in 43 turns. No we don’t want to revolt.

6. 1511 AD – Move the spear to cover the workers. Lux up 10%. Get 104G plus everyone’s WM for our WM. MM Cuzco for zero growth.

IBT – Barb attacks our spear and dies.

7. 1512 AD – Spear back to cuzco. Lux to 0.

8. 1513 AD – The Portuguese have come and built a city on the eastern side of the isthmus of Panama. Guess it doesn’t work to block from the west.
Buy a slave from the Iroquois for WM & 101G. Set him to work on the BG.

Sell WM around for 69G.
IBT – Paris build’s Leo’s

9. 1514 AD – We could attack a 1.3.1 barb pike with our Chasqui, but I don’t like the odds.

IBT – Madrid builds Cop’s

10. 1515 AD – Nothing.

After Action: We’ve just about explored everything we can explore. I didn’t sell our map for the last two turns, hoping to get more gold. We're in a bit of a hurt locker. The next post is a screen shot of our lands. We probably need to think about a settler soon to get over to the two cows area.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G_-_1515_AD.zip
 
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