Public Investigation: People vs. Stuck_As_A_Mac

Danke · Nov 21, 2002

This is an official PI thread. Stuck has been charged with violating CoL:B:1 which states:

It is unlawful to play through actions, move troops, make deals or take any other action that would change the state of the playing game from that of the saved game.

As always, the first two posts are reserved for Stuck and the Public Defender. Please do not post until those two have responded, or until 24 hours has passed from the time this thread was begun.

Danke
Judge Advocate

Stuck_as_a_Mac · Nov 21, 2002

-----RESERVED FOR DEFENSE------
I would just like to remind the public and the prosecution that I have admitied my guilt on various occasions, both in chat and in the Judicial thread. My admitance to my guilt can be found HERE Also, in to following posts, Shaitan states we WILL not be using the save.
Defense to come later

naervod · Nov 21, 2002

Stuck is guilty. He admitted it and there is no way I can change that. However, what he did do isn't a big crime as no major damage was done. I'm sure some people have done things like that, just they did not admit it. He should be given a small punishment as his crime was small and virtually insignificant. Shaitan stated he is not using the save, so it will have no effect on the game whatsoever.
Naervod
Public Defender

Octavian X · Nov 21, 2002

It's rather difficult to not call The Penguin guilty.

I do wish to know, Stuck, did you know that the action you committed was illegal at the time? This could have rammifications during the sentencing stage.

Stuck_as_a_Mac · Nov 21, 2002

Oct: At the given moment when I checked this, I was unsure of wether or not this action was legal. I wish I could show you the chat transcript where Dis told me otherwise, but I dont save things like that. If need be, Dis can vouch for my confusion since he was the one who explaned it very slowly to me. Also: Why bother calling me not guilty?

Octavian X · Nov 21, 2002

I was refering to the fact that I would feel bad if I did call you guilty, though I know it's the only correct answer to this charge.

Stuck_as_a_Mac · Nov 21, 2002

Oh, okay then. Any other questions?

donsig · Nov 21, 2002

Ok, the accused has admitted guilt already thereby cheating us out of extracting a confession by using torture. So, what is an appropriate punishment for the Penguin?

[old man on a porch voice]Back in the old days he'd a been banned for good![/old man on a porch voice]

Well, we're more civilized than that nowadays. We could still ban him for a short period, like one chat. Or we could disqualify him for any offices in the upcoming term. Or we could remove him form any offices he holds this term. We could also just warn him but I think a stronger penalty than that is called for. When in doubt about what can or can't be done with the save, one should take the time to ask if an intended action is legal or not. We must be sure that everyone is clear on this issue.

naervod · Nov 21, 2002

Did dis tell you otherwise during a t/c or at another time?
If he did so during a t/c I will dig up the chat log.

Stuck_as_a_Mac · Nov 21, 2002

Naervod: this was post TC. The incident occured at aproxomatly.. 5:00pm, EST. 11/20/02 Or later. But it wasnt six. After stating the information, which I am withholding due to the pre-PI resolution done by Bill, Dis arived. I believe CT's transcript that she posted may contain some of it.
Donsig: Id be more towards loosing all current officies (ill just run next term) I feel that keeping me out of next term is a little too harsh and may have little merrit.

Chieftess · Nov 21, 2002

It was in #civfanatics. I posted the log in the judicial thread.

Chieftess · Nov 21, 2002

By the time this is over, it WILL be the end of the term. So, I think that option is out... (losing all posistions)

Octavian X · Nov 21, 2002

Considering he didn't know what he did was illegal, I'd favor no punishment.

Stuck_as_a_Mac · Nov 21, 2002

Cant believe im about to say this: [whine] Dont let me off that easy... [/whine]

Veera Anlai · Nov 21, 2002

I believe a warning is all that is necessary. He had no intention of breaking the law, and no harm was done to any citizen or their rights, nor was any lasting damage done to our country as a whole. Indeed, I commend Stuck for coming forward and 'taking it like a man,' as the saying goes.

Keeping him from elections next term is dangerously foolish in these uncertain times, and indeed, I do not believe that preventing him from running in elections is allowed in our Three Books as currently written.

Plexus · Nov 21, 2002

While he is guilty... he was just trying to be a good citizen... i think that his punishment should be liquidation of all RPG assets into plexus's account.

naervod · Nov 21, 2002

I agree with Veera. The crime was small so the punishment should be small I think a warning is in order but nothing more. I also agree that it was honest of SAaM to come forward and admit it. There are lots of people who would've just tried to conceal it. I commend him for being honest as I feel that he will go places in life with that quality.

FionnMcCumhall · Nov 21, 2002

Originally posted by Octavian X
Considering he didn't know what he did was illegal, I'd favor no punishment.

How could he not know it was illegal? hes been with the demogame since the first demogame. The rules have been there like that since i came into the demogame, playing the save was plain illegal. An accident of pressing the spacebar i can see but using money to place spy on where they are building sun tzu and how long is gonna take was illegal. plain and simple. Nothing against you stuck, You admitted your guilty which is good enough for me. I think a simple warning is good enough

Octavian X · Nov 21, 2002

He said he wasn't sure if the espinage was illegal.

Stuck_as_a_Mac · Nov 21, 2002

Fionn: no where does it state espionage. I think that should be writen in to prevent this from happening again.

Public Investigation: People vs. Stuck_As_A_Mac

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