Many would like to see the Elgin Marbles moved out of the world's finest museum and to Greece. Here is some Greek government propaganda arguing the case for their return.
Personally, it wouldn't bother me much if they were moved, but I reject the idea that Elgin was a thief, or that the Greeks have more right to them than the British Museum. They can easily make a copy of them for display, they don't need to get them back.
It would set a very dangerous precedent for other treasures stored in their non-native lands. The call for the return of Egyptian and other ancient artifacts from the West in general and Britain specifically would greatly increased if the British gave in on this one.
While I'm no fan of the British, I believe that Western Europe and the United States can offer these artifacts a much safer and reliable home than their original locations can.
Having no knowledge of this other than the link you provided, not only does he sound like a thief to me, but it seems the British government agreed.
Originally posted by calgacus or that the Greeks have more right to them than the British Museum. They can easily make a copy of them for display, they don't need to get them back.
I guess all the Greeks did was build the Parthenon and house it for 2500 years. Why does the British Museum have any right to them at all? Why can't it be they who displays a copy?
Originally posted by Dralix
I guess all the Greeks did was build the Parthenon and house it for 2500 years. Why does the British Museum have any right to them at all? Why can't it be they who displays a copy?
They own them. They got them legitimately from the Ottoman authorities.
The modern Greeks did not build the Parthenon, the ancient Athenians did.
Originally posted by Dralix
Having no knowledge of this other than the link you provided, not only does he sound like a thief to me, but it seems the British government agreed.
He wasn't a thief. He collected antiquities, but the Ottoman authorities didn't give two tosses, and the "Greeks" were too backward at the time to either (1)be trusted to look after Europe's heritage or (2) to care. What Elgin did was in the best interests of culture. The "marbles" would probably have been destroyed had not Elgin rescued them.
I believe they should be given back to the place were they where made and stayed for more than 2 millenia.
While I'm no fan of the British, I believe that Western Europe and the United States can offer these artifacts a much safer and reliable home than their original locations can.
Originally posted by calgacus They own them. They got them legitimately from the Ottoman authorities.
The modern Greeks did not build the Parthenon, the ancient Athenians did.
He wasn't a thief. He collected antiquities, but the Ottoman authorities didn't give two tosses, and the "Greeks" were too backward at the time to either (1)be trusted to look after Europe's heritage or (2) to care. What Elgin did was in the best interests of culture. The "marbles" would probably have been destroyed had not Elgin rescued them.
Like I said, all I have to go by is the link you provided, and it sure puts a different spin on the events. Maybe that's why you called it "propaganda."
Until I (or someone much more qualified than I ) can rule on the legality of Eglin's "rescue" of the marbles I'm officially undecided, but from the information I have now, I say the Greeks have a stronger claim. In this day and age we aren't in the habit of raiding countries of their national treasures.
They own them. They got them legitimately from the Ottoman authorities.
The modern Greeks did not build the Parthenon, the ancient Athenians did.
He wasn't a thief. He collected antiquities, but the Ottoman authorities didn't give two tosses, and the "Greeks" were too backward at the time to either (1)be trusted to look after Europe's heritage or (2) to care. What Elgin did was in the best interests of culture. The "marbles" would probably have been destroyed had not Elgin rescued them.
It was not directed at Greece specifically, but at nations attempting to extract artifacts from the British in general.
Greece would be among those nations, yes. I merely state that Great Britain has a much better record in regards to political stability, security, and safekeeping of artifacts, not that Greece is somehow highly barbaric.
As somebody who cares deeply about preservation of our past, I want such important pieces to be in the best care possible. Great Britain is only second to the United States in that regard, and I view them a more than acceptable place for the marbles, and all other artifacts in the British collection, to be.
1. Of course the guy stole the marbles. Its naive if not stupid to claim that he "rescued" them in the name of culture. But the fact is that it resulted in the marbles still being around, whereas if he hadn't stolen them they probably would not be.
2. Its pretty obvious that they're in safer hands at the British Museum than in the greek equivalent. I mean no offense to Greece here, I'm just trying to be realistic.
As I recall from my Art History class (wow, I actually learned something from that), the Turks were using the Parthenon for ammo storage when a shell hit the building. That's why it's in such bad shape today; I guess that was after he removed them, but I dont remember.
Anyway, if it was afterwards, then previous posters would be definitely right that most wouldn't be around today. Whether that excuses it I don't know. But Greece isn't exactly a hotbed of unrest, or a lawless 3rd world country. I'm sure a well-equipped museum there could house the marbles just as well as in Britian.
They wouldn't want to give up the whole collection, but I don't see how it could hurt to send some of the pieces back. (Except, maybe, for the dangers in shipping.)
The Elgin marbles were deliberately created to go in the Parthenon and remained there until Lord Elgin removed them.
If the Greek government was to restore the Parthenon to the
extent that the Elgin marbles could be housed there, then providing they could reamain accessable to the international community, I would say there is no reason why the
UK should not return the marbles to the Parthenon.
However the argument for moving the marbles from a museum in Britain to a museum in Greece is a different; it is apolitical argument and is much weaker.
With respect to portable property such as diamonds,
emeralds whether in the Queens's crown or elsewhere;
which have been on many countries; the arguments
for their return are much weaker.
There is also a question of superflous exhibits.
For instance there are many Egyptian mummies
that have been moved outside Egypt; however
there are plenty left in Egypt so less reason to return them
Originally posted by Deep_Thought76 I'm sure a well-equipped museum there could house the marbles just as well as in Britian.
They wouldn't want to give up the whole collection, but I don't see how it could hurt to send some of the pieces back. (Except, maybe, for the dangers in shipping.)
I'm all for sending them back. Main reason being the fact that a completely restored partenon would be a marvelous sight. Dont see any benefits in splitting em up though. That would break up a complete sculpture for no reason.
No, they should say it Britain. Will moving them back to Greece really solve anything? And i hope they dont rebuild the Parthenon. It would be neat for us, but think of how we would be editing our history.
I vote send them back to Greece. Greece is part of the EU with Brittain and bound to remain stable as long as any place; its still too early to send back anything to Iraq, for example.
I do think you need to set a time depth beyond which you don't do returns, however. Egyptian stelae stolen by the Romans and brought to Rome in early AD can stay in Rome. Those shipped to England in the 1800s, well, I'm not so sure.
* The marble freize around the Parthenon (aka the Marbles) was sold by the government running Greece to Lord Elgin in the early 19th Century.
* Elgin donated the Marbles to the British Museum, which has kept them safe and sound to the present day.
* The same government which sold the Marbles to Elgin later used the Parthenon as an ammo dump. Someone got careless with fire or a spark and blew up the Parthenon. If the freize had still been on the Parthenon, it would most likely have been badly damaged or destroyed.
* The Greek government, who aren't the secessors to the people who sold the Marbles to Elgin or blew up the Parthenon, want the Marbles back.
I have one question. Does it really make a difference who has the Marbles?
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If I were greek I'd be insulted by that sentence.
