RBC12F - Fall of Rome Ostrogoths (demigod)

The Militaristic and Industrious Ostrogoths start near the Black Sea:



To get to the Romans both Eastern and Western, we'll have to go through the Visigoths so they'll become either our new best friends or our first victim. An additional consideration is that our start doesn't seem to have iron nearby, something which is bound to be found in the Carpath mountains to our west. We do not at present know where horses are to be found (we now need the Horseback Riding tech for that). We can expect to meet the Huns to our East

We start with 7 Migrants, 9 regular raiders and 3 workers. I suggest we do settle almost right away with our capital next to the grassland wheat and fish. We can build a few more Migrants out of there to grab possible resources and more pertinently, workers to improve our lands. The other cities only really need barracks and temples for border expansion - I've never yet built a marketplace in this scenario.

Techwise, I think we should go up the barbarian tree at maximum science as fighting is really all we need to do ( no such things as Space and Cultural Victories here ) with possible detours for masonry (to get a palace prebuild for the Scourge of God) and HBR (to build regular horses - I do hope we have at least those nearby). We may also need Sailing and Mapmaking if we can get it as the Byzantines have only 5 cities to the West of the Aegean and we would otherwise have to go the long way around the Black Sea to get three more cities (assuming the Sassanids don't get involved).

Any comments ?

Current participants (NOT the roster yet):
Aggie
Dwip
Jack Merchant
(Charis ?)

I think we can use one or two more sign-ups .

Rules:
10 turns per player, 24/48h for got it and play. Standard RB-Civ exploit list applies.

I was so bold as to play the first 10 turns - hope nobody minds . And pardon me starting too - I didn't see Charis listed those responsible for starting the threads already.... however, why not strike the iron while it's hot ?

324 AD (1) Start off with scouting. We meet the Visigoths already to the Southeast, uncover a grassland cow to the SE of the start, grassland and forests to the NW, a plains cow to the W and hills, some grassland and a fish to the S on the Crimea.

We found Reidhgotaland next to the grassland wheat and fish and set it to a granary. We found Dampstadhir to its NE, uncovering a plains cow. It's set to a raider for now to free up another one for MP in Reidhgotaland which will need it soon enough. I send one of the Migrants to settle next to the grassland cow, one South to settle the Crimea, two to settle to the W of Reidhgotaland (hopefully before the Visigoths do) and the final one to settle to its north.

Science is set to 100% research on Marauding, which is due in 23 but that will drop as we get more cities settled.

326 AD (2) Our western scouting warrior follows the road to meet the Byzantines even before the Visigoths do ! Chances are they'll meet the Visigoths in the interturn (2 of their warriors and a migrant are nearby) so I sell them the contact for as much as I can get, which turns out to be Wines, Iron and 20 gold. Wines will be useful as this means we can dispense with MPs a little longer, Iron somewhat less so but maybe we can get some marauders started before the deal runs out.
That turns out to be a moot point though as we discover an eminently grabbable source of iron to the East although I won't divert any migrants to settle it yet. Instead, I settle the sites closer to the capital first: Eygoth directly West next to a plains cow and BG on a river, Hreidmare due East next to the cow (it will require a border expansion to get the furs online too, but I didn't want to settle closer and cannibalize Reidhgotaland's good tiles - we will want our cities to be able to get to 10-15 spt each at least) and Barauja due South on the Crimea, next to a fish. Barauja and Hreidmare start on workers, Eygoth and Dampstadhir on raiders.
This leaves two Migrants active; one will settle next turn along the river NW of Reidhgotaland, another one slightly later and further west near a recently discovered game forest.

Our time to research Marauding drops to 13 turns.

328 AD (3) Found Galtis as promised, dropping our research time by a further two turns. Our last Migrant moves NW but there are two Visigoth settler pairs in the area too so it'll be a tight race. The Byzantines sold our contact to Western Rome, but our world map is valuable enough to get Contact with the Franks.

330 AD (4) Further scouting and map sales bringing in 12 gold. The Visigoths have settled Fritigernhain on the Black Sea road; I might have been able to grab that spot if I hadn't thought they'd get there sooner. But one weakness for the Barbarian AIs here is that they only move their migrants when escorted by something, which means their effective movement rate is only one. Anyway, I better get the game spot now .

332 AD (5) We do get the game spot and chop another turn off marauding research. Here's a look at our empire so far:



(iron source 5 tiles due East from Dampstadhir).

334 AD (6) Sell the map to Caesar for 10 gold; Rome and Rome now have contact with the Celts too but our treasury of 92 gold and WM is only 'close to a deal'for it - but with some luck, the Celts will buy the contact themselves anyway.

336 AD (7) Hreidmare worker - temple (feel free to switch it back to another worker - the temple is to get the furs online, the worker will go and bring irrigation). Eygoth raider - worker. Buy Contact with the Celts from Eastern Rome for WM+40 gold, Contact with the Anglo-Saxons from Western Rome for WM+52 gold. Either of the Romes also sold contact with us to the Sassanids, so only the Vandals and the Huns remain unmet now. Franks have masonry, alphabet, sailing and HBR, Anglo-Saxons lack HBR and Celts lack HBR and Alphabet.

338 AD (8) Galtis raider - worker. Sell maps for 6 gold.

340 AD (9) We meet the Vandals and sell the contact to Eastern Rome for 1gpt and 16 gold (all they were prepared to offer) and to Western Rome for TM+30 gold. Our map is worth another 16 gold this turn.

342 AD (10) Science reset to 80% for Marauding next turn, no-one else has it yet so hopefully we can pick up the first-level techs we lack with it. Maps are sold for 10 gold leaving us with 79 gold in the treasury and (temporarily) making 7gpt. Sassanids have a worker available; up to the next player whether to buy him or not.

All build orders are naturally subject to veto; have fun being the
Ostrogoth Overlord .

A few more things/suggestions:

- the Huns from the East actually do constitute a 'proper' civilization except I think they start with more units. We do want to keep them on our good side though - trying to fight them off won't be all that productive in the context of this scenario. No Catalaunian fields please .
- In one other thread, it was claimed that the Marauder doesn't require iron. This is actually not the case - iron is required for all barbarian special units.
- The Scourge of God is an excellent wonder to get: it serves as a Heroic Epic, Pentagon and Statue of Zeus (producing one Warlord every 5 turns) in one. It's a snip too at 200 shields; however, due to the lack of suitable prebuild structures, we probably won't need to start prebuilding until we start researching Barbarian Leadership.
- I don't think we need all that much more than 3-4 Migrants from now: 2 for cities near the iron spot, and 2 to found cities along the rivers to our North. Corruption may not be too bad for the Tribal Council, but second-ring cities won't be all that productive.
Alternatively,, we can just go grab 2 or 3 cities from the Visigoths once we have a few marauders.
- Commerce is king in this scenario; IIRC upgrade costs are lower than normal so our best means of getting a sizable Warlord army is actually to build and upgrade marauders, pillagers and even raiders.
- Taking on the Byzantines will most likely have to wait until we have Pillagers at least; Legions are 4/4/1 so fighting them with the 4/2/1 Marauders is a pain. Plus Pillagers can enslave defeated units into workers, while Warlords turn them into Marauders.
- Rome and Byzantines have an undocumented MPP, so you'll always automatically get to fight both (which can be a pain if you're the only one fighting them).

Aggie & Dwip: it wasn't exactly my intention to start running this SG but maybe we can decide on a roster.... Looking at the current time, how about Dwip taking it if he has time and then Aggie (after which our mystery fourth team member can ccheck in ) ?

Jack, I am just starting to read up and I am happy with me being 3rd. And thank you for taking this

Arrighty. Got it. I need to read up, too, so it might be a bit late tonight.

[0] 342 AD - And then we were Ostrogoths. The preflight check reveals that a great many things about this scenario are similar to the real game, which for those of us who played RBC4 is a relief.

The culture graph is a laugh riot.

Our Visigothic brothers really got screwed in the land grab. We should make them feel for that.

[1] 344 AD - Marauding comes in. Pillaging in 14. Eygoth Worker->Temple.

[2] 346 AD - Bairauja Worker->Temple. There are a bunch of Marauding trades we can make if we so desire, including for Masonry and Sailing. Hrm. Will see if I can find the Huns real quick.

(IBT) - The Huns show up. They have HBR, which of course we have nothing to trade for.

[3] 348 AD - Galtis Worker->Temple. I actually think about doing last turn's trading round, but, uh, IBT EVERYBODY picked up Marauding. Wow. So much for that plan. Sorry gang.

[4] 350 AD - Anchialos Rax->Temple.

[5] 352 AD -

[6] 354 AD - Hriedmare is dying of plague. Ack! The animation for it is pretty cool, though.



[7] 356 AD -

[8] 358 AD - Reid Granary->Migrant. Plague hits Reid, too. Doh.

[9] 360 AD - Damp gets nailed by plague. Our smelly unwashed barbarianness is apparently bad.

[10] 362 AD - All the plague seems to have cleared up. Woot!

Not an exciting bunch of turns, but we're getting there. Migrant due in 2, Pillaging in 3, and temples after that. We're sort of behind in the tech game, but.

Save us from plagues!

Well, with some luck we'll be able to pick up the remaining techs with pillaging... otherwise we'll just have to prebuild the Scourge of God with a granary .

Glad you got the plague for excitement - things will properly heat up a bit later though once we come share our unwashedness with the Romans . But maybe we can re-assimilate our Visigoth brethren first !

Got it. Number three of 'things to do tonight', after RBC11 and LK59. And those are war turns... Hmmm, maybe I should play this first.

Our Visigoths brohters may have bad land, but as pointed out in the Visigoths thread, we should be careful and not have too many cities. When 8 of them are captured, we will be dead. What does the rest of the team think of that?

I am able to get a lot of techs, gold and maps for selling contact with the Huns. I assume that that (trading contacts) is a great idea in this scenario as well?

EDIT: Also, we are already halfway through the tech tree now and can build pillagers (still IHT!!). Should I switch temples to barracks and then build like crazy? Is border expansion actually usefull when cities remain under 9 pop?

EDIT2: Sorry, please consider this as a positive attempt to join the discussion, but...should we really build a migrant in our capital while we can pre-build the Scrouge of God? Wouldn't it be good to have it built in a big city? So my suggestion is to build a lot of veteran pillagers and go conquer cities instead of settling ourselves.

Get all you can for the contact ! We will want something to prebuild the SoG with, plus eventually we do want all the techs to get to Heavy Cavalry and Fortification (which enables crossing rivers, of which there are a lot in this scenario).

We do need at least one migrant to grab the iron to our east (no iron = no pillagers) and probably a worker or two to hook it up too, but I'm quite happy with the idea of taking the rest of our cities by force . The Visigoth capital and their city on the Black Sea seem like a good place to start.

Only disadvantage of the capital for building the SoG is there is no palace or other wonder to prebuild with, and it will be very tough to keep it happy if the other cities don't grow at fast. It doesn't really matter where we build the SoG otherwise as long as it's halway productive. I do think at least a few cities need temples (Halm-something in particular to grab the cow) and we'll want to grow them too as once we research Sacking we can only build 70-shield Warlords (other than the completely useless spears and horses for later upgrade) for military.

Jack, I'm building Pillagers as we speak/write without iron!! But the palace pre-build is a good one

EDIT: no, it's not true, we are trading for iron apparently (with eastern Rome).

I do think however that all workers should join and improve one city to pre-build the SoD.

edit: nm - darn slow forum....

All for the workers joining and improving . MY guess is that Dampstadhir is the best choice since it'll be able to work the plains cow, a plains wheat and at least two forests along with regular plains tiles (after it's got its temple). The workers can come out of Reidhgotaland which is closest.

Anyway, something tells me I don't need to tell you what to do .

Still I have a question: do we want to go to war vs both Romes within 20 turns? I can make gpt deals...

I'd say not within 20 turns - turn 50 is soon enough to start Armageddon imho. That gives us approximately 70 turns to wipe them both out, which should be ample. I do think we will want at least 15-20 pillagers before we take them on anyway.

YMMV though -we could score some style points by being the quickest to take them on .

IHT: I start with trading:

- The Sassadins get contact with the Huns, world map and 30 gold for Polytheism
- The Franks get contact with the Huns and Polytheism for Sailing, Masonry, Alphabet and 20 gold
- The Anglo Saxons get contact with the Huns, Polytheism and 15 gold for Writing and Horseback Riding
- The Huns give Pillaging and 120 gold for Writing and Alphabet
- Eastern Rome gives gives us 49 gold, territory map and 1 gold per turn for contact with the Huns

I decide to keep the rest unaware of pillaging.

Research on Barbarian Leadership (in 14). All temples are switched to barracks.

IT: Dampstadhir, Hreidmare, Eygoth, Galish: barracks->pillager.

Turn 1 (364 AD) nothing much

IT: Reidhgotalaland: Migrant->library, as a prebuild for SoG.I renegotiate wines with eastern Rome for 75 gold and WM.

Turn 2 (366 AD) Migrant goes towards iron spot. Anchialos gets a scientist to prevent riots. BL now in 10.

Celts get useless(?) Polytheism for 34 gold.

Turn 3 (368 AD)

IT: Bairauja: barracks->raider.

Turn 4 (370 AD) Cnivastavs settled near iron. Starts barracks. Lux to 20%. Scientist in Anchialos fired. BL in 9.

IT: Eastern Rome start Justinian's Leadership

Turn 5 (372 AD)

IT: Western Rome start Justinian's Leadership

Turn 6 (374 AD)

Turn 7 (376 AD)

IT: Bairauja: raider->raider.

Turn 8 (378 AD) Hreidmare gets scientist to calm the people and speed up science.

IT: Hreidmare: pillager->temple.

Turn 9 (380 AD) Hreidmare has two MP's, so scientist is put back to work.

IT: Eygoth: pillager->raider. Huns start SoG

Turn 10 (382 AD) Iron will be hooked up in one turn and we will have Barbarian Leadership as well. The library in our capital is the prebuild. Let's hope it's enough...

Visigoths, Celts and Vandals are backward and still don't know Pillaging. Only the Huns know BL...

382 AD save

Our land:



EDIT: corrected spelling

Great trades . I'm not too worried about the Huns getting SoG as we have our probably best city on it with a granary already plus, what, 60 shields into it already ? That should easily take care of the Demigod production bonus with turns to spare.

I am going to reiterate my call for more players until I pick it up (which won't be until tomorrow anyway).

Anyone fancying a demigod march of mayhem, join up !

We could sell pillaging next turn if we get decent trades for it. We can use the money for upgrading our now obsolete pillagers Also: we will have quite a few strong attackers very soon. I would assume that we are going to war within 20 turns to teach the backward Visigoths what barbarism is all about. Or are we ready for the Romans already by then?

EDIT: If we are quite positive to get SoD, we might be thinking about settling a few spot again.

EDIT2: I see two raiders being built. Do we finish them and upgrade to warlords? Or should we switch to warlords next turn?

We can't actually build Warlords yet (these only become available after Sacking). Once the iron comes online again we can upgrade them to pillagers, and then to warlords later.

Pillagers should be quite enough to clean out the Visigoths with.