RBC12F - Fall of Rome Ostrogoths (demigod)

Nice work on the buildup and force organization, Kabuki :goodjob:. Once our GA starts (with the first WL victory) the Visigoths are toast :hammer:.

Here's the current roster btw:

Dwip - UP NOW
Aggie - on deck
Jack Merchant
Kabuki (just played)

There may be room for a fifth player but we're 50 turns in now so everyone's only going to get 2-3 more turns anyway (unless we skip to 5 turns per round later - our empire will still be fairly small but we'll most likely have tons of troops tto manage).
 
I agree to stick with the current team. And I want to wish Dwip good luck. We have to go to war, time is running out ;)

In RBC12A they suggest to send migrants with/after the troops, to fill in the spot when the Visigoths crumble. Maybe a ggod idea for us as well?
 
Yupp, I semi-suggested that, although there aren't really any places we can spare to build migrants. However it becomes much more vital that we do so when we are attacking Rome... we need to not only split off troops for guarding the VP markers, but we might need cities there as well. It's probably a reasonable idea to have either some horsemen or spearmen following behind for VP duty.
 
No need to overdo it on the replacement cities - the ones to our north will most likely contribute to our economic strength only (although the GA will help them get up to speed), the ones to our south will help a bit (and seem to have temples too so won't be autorazed).

VP grabbing can remain limited to units I think as we can just get ROPS to keep them if someone builds a city around them (won't be a problem with the VPs in Greece but may occur in Northern Italy). Probably best too to grab them with horsemen to get there first, and the lesser producers can build horsies anyway for later upgrade to Heavy Cav.
 
See it. I'll try to take care of it tonight, if not then tomorrow.
 
[0] 422 AD - And lo, there were Visigoths to be killed. And we thought to smite them greatly, for we have a lot of guys. Right then.

Lots of units still left to move, so we move them. Veducbaurgs founded on the migrant's position. Why did they have so many wars in the ancient world, you ask? Everybody was angry at trying to pronounce their city names.

Speaking of wars, it's about that time, isn't it? Dial up poor Alaric, who doesn't appear as if he's going to be sacking Rome anytime soon, and declare. We launch a couple attacks up north, pillagers vs. raiders. First one wins and promotes, second one dies with a sad little whimper.

(IBT) - The, ah, Visigothic response is, er, no, sorry, no Visigothic response here.

[1] 424 AD - Our initial pillager attacker takes another raider, and promotes for the second time in as many rounds, to elite.

We go up against Athanasweriva in the north.
Vet Warlord vs Reg Spear: -2 hp, we win, and...it's the Golden Age of the Ostrogoths! A vet pillager takes a reg spear, and wins with no hp loss.

[2] 426 AD - Reid Warlord->Warlord (in 3!), and the Scourge pumps another Warlord. Damp Spear->Spear, Eygoth Spear->Warlord.

Back at Athan...
Vet Pillager vs. Reg Spear, win.
2 hp Warlord vs. Reg Spear, win, enslave, Athan razed.

Fritigernhaims (the southern group):
Vet Warlord vs Vet Spear: -1 hp, win, enslave.
Vet Warlord vs Vet Spear: win.
Vet Pillager vs Vet Spear: -2 hp, it promotes, we lose, we raze their rax anyway, because we're Ostrogoths and we're cool like that.
Vet Pillager vs Reg Spear: Win, promote.
Vet Pillager vs 3hp elite spear: -3 hp, promote, raze the temple, capture the city. The mighty Ostrogoths have their first territorial expansion!

(IBT) - A particularly unwise Visigothic raider attacks our marauder/warlord stack, gets bombarded by the warlord, and killed by the marauder, who promotes. Thanks Alaric!

[3] 428 AD - Hriedmare Warlord->Warlord, Anchialos Warlord->Courthouse, Cnivastavs Temple->Courthouse. We slow down to rest a turn or so.

[4] 430 AD - Construction comes in, we go for Fortification. Damp Spear->Warlord, Galtis Warlord->Warlord.

A Visigoth Pillager shows up, so I run it down and kill it with Warlords.

You really don't want to know how many VPs East Rome is getting each turn. You just don't.

(IBT) - I'm sure there's a perfectly logical reason why East Rome is running two undefended workers right past our main army in Visigoth territory.

[5] 432 AD - Reid Warlord->Warlord, Bairauja Spear->Temple, Respaweihs Spear->Temple.

We're on the move again. Slowly.

(IBT) - The Visigoths show up with Warlords, and win one lose one. East Rome shows up demanding our map and 32 gold. Now isn't particularly the time to fight the Romans, so I cave.

[6] 434 AD - There's something fairly amusing about enslaving a warlord with a warlord, really. Meanwhile, we continue marching downcountry in Visigothland.

(IBT) - Regular warlords just don't compete, Alaric. Sorry.

[7] 436 AD - Scourge pops a Warlord. Us driving warlords, I might add, is more fun than is legal amongst seven entire barbarian nations.

Oestergarn.
Vet Warlord vs Reg Spear: -2 hp, -library, dead spear.
3hp Warlord vs Reg Spear: -1 hp, lose. Hrm.
Elite Pillager vs Reg Spear: -4 hp, win. Walls, perhaps?
Elite Pillager vs Reg Spear: Oestergarn falls, we pick up 2 workers.

(IBT) - It seems Alaric wants peace. Unfortunately for him, I'm not inclined to give it.

[8] 438 AD - Reid Warlord->Warlord, Hreidmare Warlord->Warlord, Eygoth Warlord->Warlord.

Ufar...
Elite Warlord vs Reg Spear: Zot. One dead spear.
Vet Warlord vs Reg Spear: Zot. We promote.
Elite Pillager vs Reg Spear: Zot. We enslave a worker, too. Yay slavery!

(IBT) - There's a lot of Anglo-Saxons going SOMEWHERE.

[9] 440 AD - Damp Warlord->Warlord.

Ufar...
Elite Warlord vs. Reg Spear: -4 hp, worker capture, enslavement, razed city.

Theud...
Vet Warlord vs Reg Spear: -1 hp, promote, enslave.
Vet Pillager vs Reg Spear: Win, promote.
Vet Marauder vs Reg Spear: -2 hp, win, library death.
Reg Marauder vs Reg Spear: -2 hp, win, capture, promote.

(IBT) - Some Visigoths finally show up.

[10] 442 AD - Friti Spear->Temple, Anchialos Courthouse->Spear, Cniavstavs Courthouse->Spear. Do some moving and such, kill and enslave some more Visigoths, because enslaving Visigoths is what we live for.

Fortification will come in one turn, after which we can hit up Currency if we decide we care. The Visigoths have three, count them three cities left until they go the way of the dodo. Their three core cities might be sort of nice. Other than that, enjoy our golden age.

Save...Exterminate the Visigoths!

Dwip
Aggie - UP
Jack Merchant - On Deck
Kabuki
 
The nasty side effect of crushing the Visigoths is that the Western Romans have an easy fast way to get to us...

EDIT: I would advvise to switch of research completely now (After fortification) and focus on war and war alone.

Also: let us get as much allies as possible vs the Romans empires :)
 
Just a thought, does someone have the time to throw up a map with target priorities and order for Eastern Rome. Figure we have to take out eight cities. What is the most efficient set of targets? Do we need to build galleys? Etc. I might have time tomorrow, but I'm going to be buried up to my elbows in ancient Japanese maps for the next couple of days so I might not have the time before the weekend is over.

W.r.t research, there should be no problem in getting the 2nd age techs by trading with Rome before we declare. Cook the books and then trade. 10gpt buys us 1 tech and we only need 3 or 4. We are Barbarians after all :viking: so no need to be honorable...

:hammer:
 
My suggestion would be to have two thrusts: one southern and one western. The southern line would be towards Constantinople and then due west along the coast through to Athens, the Western one would go towards the two Byzantine cities to the north first and then switch north towards the easternmost Roman cities.

If we can't buy in the Sassanids, it may actually be safer to send Heavy Cav (once we get it) on the road around the Black Sea into Anatolia - I don't know whether the Byzantines build dromons, but they do own the lighthouse so they might be able to chase down our galleys with impunity.
 
Originally posted by Kabuki
W.r.t research, there should be no problem in getting the 2nd age techs by trading with Rome before we declare. Cook the books and then trade. 10gpt buys us 1 tech and we only need 3 or 4. We are Barbarians after all :viking: so no need to be honorable...

:hammer:

The map is a good idea, but I have not the time nor the energy atm. I will play tomorrow.

But breaking trades; let's not do that. I hates it :)
 
I concur on the trading (for reasons of principle as well as convenience - we may want to ally vs some barb tribe later) -plus we only need Military Training from the 2nd age techs anyway. What with the big imbalance between attack and defense ratings, there's no need to invest 400 shields and a ton of beakers in a Military Academy and Military Strategy anyway (I'd rather have 6 Warlords !) and churches aren't all that useful as long as the lux tax can keep our people happy too.
 
IHT:

Our VP: 2265
Eastern Romes VP: 15720

I will start with ending the reign of the Visigoths, but I probably also will start the war vs the Romans as well, once regrouped and ready. I will meanwhile kill as many Visigoth units as I can.

IT: Visigoth warlord kills an elite warlord. 3 raiders move towards Anchialos. We research Forticifaction and

Reidhgotaland: warlord->warlord.

Turn 1 (444 AD)

Our VP: 2445 (+160)
Eastern Rome VP: 16000 (280) they win in 60 turns at this rate.

Currency in 4 (50% science and +28 gpt). We only have to go for heavey cavalry and I won't pay 18 gpt for currency :eek:

Near Visigoth Alveistugla:
Elite Pillager kills 3-hitpoint warlord and enslaves a worker
Troops move on hill NE of the city

Anchialos:
Vet warlord kills a vet raider and enslaves a marauder
This regular marauder kills a regular raider and promotes
Regular warlord kills last raider

Two raiders promoted to warlord.

IT: No Visigoths in immediate striking distance. Our SoG produces a warlord. Galtis: warlord->warlord. Angialos: spear->warlord. Snivastavs: spear->warlord.

Turn 2 (446 AD)

Our VP: 2485 (+40)
Eastern Romes VP: 16310 (+310)

Siege of Alveistugla:
Vet warlord kills raider without hurting himself
Vet warlord kills raider losing two hitpoints and we take Alveistugla

Around Anchialos:
Regular warlord kills spear
Elite warlord kills regular raider
Elite warlord kills raider and enslaves marauder
This regular marauder kills a raider
Vet warlord kills a raider and promotes
Vet marauder kills a raider

IT: A raider crosses a river but can't kill our marauder. Warlord kills a pillager. Rheidmare, Eygoth: warlord->warlord. Sassanids finish Justinian's Leadership.

Turn 3 (448 AD)

Our VP 2715 (+230)
Eastern Romes VP: 16560 (+250)

Elite Pillager kills wounded warlord
Elite Warlord kills a raider

Raider upgraded to warlord

Science to 30%, currency in 2.

IT: Regular Visigoth warlord kills pillager. We build two more warords and Byzantines finish St. Peter.

Turn 4 (450 AD)

Our VP: 2785 (+70)
Eastern Romes VP: 17210 (650 :eek:)

Siege of Harbrun:
Elite warlord kills vet warord and we get a marauder
Elite Pillager kills regular warlord and we get a worker
Regular marauder kills regular spear and promotes
Regular marauder relines a spear. Another spear shows up.

IT: We lose a warlord vs a warlord. We discover currency and start Military Traing (in 7 at 50% science). Bairauja: temple->warlord. Western Rome finishes Hagia Sophia.

Turn 5 (452 AD)

Our VP: 3025 (+240)
Easten Romes VP: 17490 (+280)

Two vet warlords kill warlords outside Alveistuga.

Siege of Swalauv.....:
Vet warlord Destroys barracks, kills regular warlord and promotes
Elite pillager destroys kills spear
Vet marauder is kille dby a spear

Siege of Habrun:
Warlord kills a regular spear
Pillager kills a regular spear
Marauder is killed by regular spear

Siege of Sineigswinja:
Elite Warlord kills a regular spear and
Elite illager kills a regular spear

Raider upgraded to Warlord.

IT: We lose a warlord near Habrun. That assault is stopped. Oestgarn riots. It doesn't like hhow we treat their people :p

Turn 6 (454 AD)

Our VP: 3495 (+470)
Eastern Romes VP: 17770 (+280)

Siege of Swalau...
Elite warlord kills a spear and the city is razed. Oh, we also get a leader :hammer:

This is turned into an army of warlords soon.

One town to go...

Siege of Sineigswinja:
Elite walrod destroys library and kills spear
Regular Marauder kills spear
A redlined warlord remains

Turn 7 (456 AD)

Our VP: 3665 (+170)
Eastern Romes VP: 18050 (+280)

Elite warlord kills redlined warlord (creating a new marauder) and takes Sineigswinja. The Visigoths are gone

Leader forms an army and is filled with warlords.

IT: A lot of Frankish raiders have been moving east. Dunno what they try to achieve :hmm: Eastern Roman Heavy Cavalry does the some by the way.

Turn 8 (458 AD)

Our VP 4875 (1210 :D )
Eastern Romes VP: 18340 (290)

I now focus on military and military alone. The army has four warlords in it and should be VERY VERY useful :)
I upgrade a warrior and get our 28th warlord

Turn 9 (460 AD)

Our VP 4875 (+0)
Eastern Romes VP: 18650 (+310)

Science to 30% (next tech still in 3)

Turn 10 (462 AD)

Our VP: 4875 (+0)
Eastern Rome: 18930 (270)

I build an embassy in Constantinople for 35 gold:



I lot of units as defense, but these city is only size 6. We have enough warlords to fight them, especially when covered by an army.

According to the VP's we have enough time left. However, when wars start, things will change drastically. We have 31 warlords including a warlord army. I think that we are ready for the war VERY soon.
We should buy in as many allies as possible. Within 2 turns we get our (last?) tech Military Training. This allows Heavy Cavalry. If it were me, research then would go to 0%.

462 AD save
 
IHT: Everything looks good, I decide to wait 1-2 more turns with invading so we can bring enough troops to bear on the Byzantines.

464 AD (1) Reset science for Mil Training next turn. Establish embassies with the Vandals and Huns. The Vandals turn out to be fighting the Anglo-Saxons, while the Huns are facing an alliance of Anglo-Saxons and Sassanids again. Looks like the Celts and the Franks will be our most useful allies vs the Romans then. Shuffles some troops around to keep Reidh.. and Eygoth happy, notice our GA ends next turn. Swap Hreidmare to aqueduct as it can use a couple more productive tiles.

IT The Western Romans demand furs; seeing as we'll be at war with them in 1-2 turns anyway, I tell Caesar to take a hike. They declare war. Sassanids move 2 Heavy Cav into our territory at Cnivastavs.

466 AD (2) GA ends and of course Military Training now comes in a turn later :rolleyes:. I establish an embassy with the Franks and notice we can sell them horses. Don't know whether the trade route would survive a war with the Byzantines too, and there's only one way to find out. Declare war on the Eastern Romans. We can still sell the Franks horses and by adding in 12 gpt, they declare on the Western Romans too. I decide to sell our spare furst to the Sassanids in exchange for Silks, tm and 7 gold as a form of insurance, plus we can use the lux. They're huge and have tons of luxuries - no wonder SirPleb reported beating this Conquest on Sid with them as being 'straightforward'.
Map sales bring in about 30 gold.

We move our Warlords into Byzantine territory at Singidinum grabbing 2 workers, and will move in on Constantinople next turn. I notice the town of Fritigernhains on the Black Sea could be attacked directly without warning by Heavy Cavs coming in over the hill road the Visigoths built - something to keep in mind. I send a slave marauder to keep guard over the road.

The Huns have already lost 4 towns, the Western Romans are now leading in VPs at 19,430.

IT the slave marauder succesfully fights off a HC, the Byzantines grab back the slaves and declare war on the Franks too.

468 AD (3) Establish an embassy with the Celts so we can pull them in against Western Rome if we don't get there in time ourselves. Move our southern SoD into Byzantine territory, the western one moves next to Singidinum. Warlord kills HC near Alveistulga.

IT tons more Sassanid cav appear and they waste another Hun town. We do NOT want to piss these guys off ! Roman Legion kills a WL on a mountain, HC barely kills a spear.

470 AD (4) Advance on Constantinople continues, stack next to Singidinum moves onto the wheat in hopes of starving it back to size 6. Switch some cities over to Heavy Cav production to deal with the Roman cavs and because they can get to the front sooner.
Decide to sign in the Vandals against Western Rome too, for 100 gold and 6gpt they're ours.

IT No counters

472 AD (5) Western Rome is up to 20,680 VP now - if they reach 25,000, I suggest we buy in the Celts too. I'm still maneuvering around Singidinum in hopes of starving it and kill a HC there.

474 AD (6) Assault on Constantinople starts; we lose 5 Warlords with some appalling combat luck (bringing defenders down to 1hp and then dying). Generate some more marauders there too but at the end of the day a 1hp legion remains standing :(. We're up to 6015 VP but with the combat results Eastern Rome now has 21,110. Huns have lost 6 towns now and will be dead soon.

476 AD (7) Army loses 8 hps knocking off the last two legions in Constantinople, regains 1 due to a promotion. A warlord kills the hurt HC sheltering there too and we raze the city !
Time to regroup a bit there now. Singidinum is still at size 7 :(.

IT 2 Dromons enter the Sea of Azov, and a HC appears near Cni-something. Franks sign in the Anglo-Saxons against Rome too.

478 AD (8) Send some reinforcements South and I also gather a stack of 7 WLs which can go in the direction (Western Rome's easternmost city and a victory point). Kill the HC near Cnivastavs with a WL and a raider after it retreated, blow 240 gold on WL upgrades so we can defend Hreidmare when the Byzantines land something there.

IT the warlord on the former Constantinople VP succesfully defends against 2 HCs and generates another marauder. The dromons leave again :hmm:.

480 AD (9) Move in on Sardica, Singidinum now at size 6 (I'll attack it next turn now it no longer has the bonus but our troops need to cross back across the river again). I decide to buy in the Celts against Western Rome too, as the Romans are now up to over 22,000VPs. It costs 22gpt, 80gp and a ROP. We're down to 46gpt, but from here on out there's nothing much to upgrade or spend anyway. Huns can only afford to lose one more city now.

IT The Eastern Romans agressively counterattack near Singidinum, but lose 2 HCs and a legion.

482 AD (10) Singidinum falls at last; due to its extreme proximity to another town and its high culture load, I decide to raze it. We come one unit short of grabbing Sardica too but it will fall next turn.

Plague hits Galtis :ack:.

We're up to 8820 VPs, the Western Romans have 22,850. Eastern Rome has slightly less but we're due to grab their third city next turn so I think we'll be alright as far as they're concerned. Also, their capital jumped to Alexandria so most of their former core is bound to be hopelessly corrupt now :D. I do think we're spread a little thin militarily - what might help is adding in some of our workers to cities to increase productivity since our core lands have been fully improved anyway.
The Huns to our East are no longer a concern, but the Sassanids might be !

the save
 
Ok, just looked at the save and have the following questions:

1. Should we trade up to Siegecraft (Trebuchets), the tech will cost us a total of 10gpt from the Sassanids.

2. I don't think we need, or want help against the Byzantine. However doo we want to prep three HC, Migrant pairs for the VP cities in Asia Minor? We'll have the HC in two, galleys and migrants shortly thereafter. If we time it right The Sassanids won't have time to get their migrants into the area to grab those spots.

3. How badly do we want catapults and trebuchets? I think they are worth it, but if we keep up a high operational pace I don't think they will have any significant impact.

Other than that it looks very sweet. :goodjob: I'll play after I hear back from you and after I have had breakfast... ok and I think I'll enjoy the sun a bit as well...
 
Ambivilant on the 'pults and trebs. Not sure we need them, but then, I wasn't fighting Rome, either, so I dunno. Just getting the tech probably can't hurt, though.

I do think garrisoning the VP sites would be worthwhile, though.

On another note, there's a pretty good chance I'm not going to be able to play until, say, Tuesday. So I wouldn't mind a swap if it comes to that.
 
Don't think we need trebs either - we can take out the Eastern Romans without them and I suspect we'll only need to take 2-3 Western Roman cities with all the other barbarians aligned against them too. And the other barb tribes don't have any kind of defender requiring Trebs to take them down.
 
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