1860 ad

BenGee171 · Dec 30, 2009

Yes, I think the AP should be obsolete, because in 1860 Nationalism was more powerful then the catholic church.

There were other mods I remember with more then 7 religions, I will try to get the link out.
If I was you, I would delete all the old units (which are unwanted) out of the xml files, you could think about deleting all old technologies and replacing it with something like "Base knowledge" which would include all the benefits of all the old technologies which you got rid of, I guess it is easier to leave the old ones in place, but it would be interesting to have a complete new tech tree.

I am now in June 1863AD, and Britain is unstoppable why don't you make Canada, Australia into vassals of Britain, that would limit the power of Britain.
Russia, France and Qing are the other strong nations with plenty of vassals. I as Ottomans conquered Arabia, 2 cities of Abyssinia and half of Austria (still advancing further), Egypt and Sokoto are my vassals. It is really tough when one of the Big ones declares war on you.

I will give you and update later on.

little update:
Britain and other nations have the technologies "Fission" and "Radio" which are not shown on the techtree.

ok, another update:

check this link out: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10354
with more then 7 religions added.

nokmirt · Dec 30, 2009

JEELEN said:
RFC Protestantism uses, well, Protestantism. With an 1860 start you don't need a schism to occur, just the right buttons and such and the AP linked to Catholicism (not Christianity). I reckon the AP is the tricky bit (although you could make it obsolete, ofcourse).

I was thinking of making it obsolete, it does not fit anymore. What power does the church really have by this time, a spiritual one of course, but in reality, Imperialism becomes the main goal of nations. In any case how would I obsolete AP?

BenGee171 · Dec 30, 2009

nokmirt · Dec 31, 2009

BenGee171 said:
Ok, I have something else to add, I thought I will just use my previous double post for that.

Just some feedback and ideas:

1 Domination Victory with 34% World Population and 51% Land is ridicules. I guess you will agree. (population 30% and land 30% seems more realistic)

2 The "Church of nativity" should be in Jerusalem.

3 Christianity should be divided into "Catholic", "Protestant" and "Orthodox" (it would limit the influence of the apostolic palace as well)

- Rome could be the holy city of Catholic Christianity, London the holy city of Protestant Christianity, and you could use Jerusalem as holy city of Orthodox Christianity.
Making the Apostolic Palace the holy site of Catholic Christianity, the Church of Nativity the holy site of Orthodox Christianity, and maybe "St Paul's Cathedral" being the holy site for Protestant Christianity

4 I remember those options you have at the beginning of the "the road to war" modification where you can choose either a complete scripted version with original events as they occurred in history or a version where at the beginning you start of with the original diplomatic situation but then you can make diplomatic agreements over peace or war, or another version where it is all open I think. Why not implement something like this, then you could start 1860 and go through the ages until 1918 or 1920. Then again, over such a long period of time it might be difficult to let the game develop like history did.

5 You should get rid of those ancient and medieval units. It is a bit weird to fight against macemen, spearmen, archers and catapults.

6 You could add a few civics which are important for that period of time.

Under the victoryinfos.xml populationlead needed for domination victory is set at 25%(this means you have to have a lead of 25% increase of population over any other civ to win domination, what should I bring this down to? It will be very hard to outdo Russia). I have reduced this to 15% increase of population, let's try that first and see how it goes.

I am reducing the iMinLandPercent to 30% and the iLandPercent is set at 49% which is total land between player and vassals needed for domination victory.

4 I remember those options you have at the beginning of the "the road to war" modification where you can choose either a complete scripted version with original events as they occurred in history or a version where at the beginning you start of with the original diplomatic situation but then you can make diplomatic agreements over peace or war, or another version where it is all open I think. Why not implement something like this, then you could start 1860 and go through the ages until 1918 or 1920. Then again, over such a long period of time it might be difficult to let the game develop like history did.

As for this it is better for it to be random, at least until I learn Python abd can add events. It will be hard to exact history here on such a large scale. No two games should be exactly the same. The drawback to road to war is that there is so much Python you cannot mod it. I did like road to war however.

The Apostolic Palace will be obsolete with Scientific Method, it's days will be numbered.
Scientific Method has been added to this updates tech tree.

Let me look into the Church of nativity, cannot find it, but it's in the game, why is it not in buildinginfos.xml?

nokmirt · Dec 31, 2009

BenGee171 said:
In regards to religions, it might be an idea to create pagan religions without a holy city like for example "african shamanism" "asian shamanism" "american shamanism" or something like that just to simulate areas where a part or the whole of the population belongs to these beliefs and if as state religion, to simulate their likening of each other and their disliking of the Christians or Muslims.

I made the point before, but please make Australia and Canada separate nations, and as vassal of Britain, that would greatly help the game balance.

If you make later on other scenarios, like World War 1, there will be a need to create other nations. (like Germany instead of Prussia, Serbia...)
now, something else:

Have you added these units already?

for Ottomans http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13456
for Portuguese http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13416
for Swedish http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13415
this one for one of the far eastern nations http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13415
this for the Koreans http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12928
this for the Dutch http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12801
this for the US http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12767
this one for a South American nation http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12505
this for the US http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12305
this for the CSA http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12264
for US and CSA http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12257
for Australia http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11836
for Spain http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12096
for Australia http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11498
for Brazil http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11481
for Argentine http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11439
for Mexico http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11269
for Japan http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10553
for Japan http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10719
for Japan http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10552
for diversity and alternative riflemen http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10438
this one is interesting as well http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10401
for Abyssinia or http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10309
for minor nations http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9259
for Sokoto http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8861
for another south east asian nation http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8764
for Chile http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8739
for Sioux http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8237
for Austria http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8416
for Italy http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8072
for Canada http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7250
for Minor Nations http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7363
some other european units http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7154
for Japan http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7191

have a look at this.

Some, but this list is very valuable, and will help alot. I was going to add Union and Confederate great generals, but the system is run by SDK and is randomized, so I have decided not to mess with them. They tell me it will be too difficult for them to replace the original great general unit. Thank you for this, and these units will be added slowly but surely. I have a bunch already ready to go, and the tech tree is coming along nicely. Thanks Ben

I will change canada and australia to British vassals, but seperate nations. In the third update I will make Germany, and changes to represent world war one. I also want to make the Boer republic, and I have the Boer Commando unit ready to go. This will come out in the third update. Australia in the third update, there were actually six colonies there, they gained nominal dominion as the Commonwealth of Australia in 1907. The six colonies were federated in 1901. I could make them all seperate and vassals of the UK. Let's see they were the British self-governing colonies of New South Wales, Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania, Victoria and Western Australia. Interesting, sadly I no nothing about Australian History. That's sad being a history buff.

I will add Canada to this update, they federated in 1867, and became Canada a dominion of the British Empire, a self governing vassal. Thanks for bring these things to my attention.

Ben do you know what city has the Church of Nativity?

BenGee171 · Dec 31, 2009

Some, but this list is very valuable, and will help alot. I was going to add Union and Confederate great generals, but the system is run by SDK and is randomized, so I have decided not to mess with them. They tell me it will be too difficult for them to replace the original great general unit. Thank you for this, and these units will be added slowly but surely. I have a bunch already ready to go, and the tech tree is coming along nicely. Thanks Ben

I will change canada and australia to British vassals, but seperate nations. In the third update I will make Germany, and changes to represent world war one. I also want to make the Boer republic, and I have the Boer Commando unit ready to go. This will come out in the third update. Australia in the third update, there were actually six colonies there, they gained nominal dominion as the Commonwealth of Australia in 1907. The six colonies were federated in 1901. I could make them all seperate and vassals of the UK. Let's see they were the British self-governing colonies of New South Wales, Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania, Victoria and Western Australia. Interesting, sadly I no nothing about Australian History. That's sad being a history buff.

I will add Canada to this update, they federated in 1867, and became Canada a dominion of the British Empire, a self governing vassal. Thanks for bring these things to my attention.

Ben do you know what city has the Church of Nativity?

I think you should leave Australia as a whole.

Yes, leave the generals out it does not matter much.

Church of Nativity is in real life in Bethlehem (near Jerusalem), in the mod it is in Rome.

btw.: Why is it, that I can not make defense pacts? Am I missing out something?

IMPORTANT: I just realized, that the Austro - Prussian War was fought in 1866, so Austria and Prussia should not even be at war at the beginning of the game.
Check: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Prussian_War

nokmirt · Dec 31, 2009

BenGee171 said:
I think you should leave Australia as a whole.

Yes, leave the generals out it does not matter much.

Church of Nativity is in real life in Bethlehem (near Jerusalem), in the mod it is in Rome.

btw.: Why is it, that I can not make defense pacts? Am I missing out something?

IMPORTANT: I just realized, that the Austro - Prussian War was fought in 1866, so Austria and Prussia should not even be at war at the beginning of the game.
Check: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Prussian_War

I am not sure about defensive pacts, you get that through Military Tradition, both sides have to have the tech and very good relations. It is turned on in the options, so I am not sure why it is not working, because it should be. I will go to the GEM forum and ask what's up with that, because I never touched it, I left military tradition alone.

I could make it so Austria and Prussia are at peace. Then again it does not have to be exactly true to History. Are there German states as well, Prussia was only a part of the whole of Germany. If there are a confederation of German states, I think we should change these to Germany.

I will change the Church of the nativity from rome to jerusalem.

BenGee171 · Jan 1, 2010

I could make it so Austria and Prussia are at peace. Then again it does not have to be exactly true to History. Are there German states as well, Prussia was only a part of the whole of Germany. If there are a confederation of German states, I think we should change these to Germany.

Well, I would say that the war between Austria and Prussia was not so important, since it was just to fight about who is going to lead the new Germany (post-Napoleon). The war lasted only 7 weeks. Since Prussia won, the North German Confederation ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_German_Confederation ) was found. Now, whilest the NGC was fighting a war against France ( Franco Prussian War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Prussian_War ), which they later on won, the German Empire was proclaimed on the 18th of January 1871 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Empire )

Quote from Wikipedia:

Three wars led to military successes and helped to convince German people to do this: the Second war of Schleswig against Denmark in 1864, the Austro-Prussian War against Austria in 1866, and the Franco-Prussian War against France in 1870–71. During the Siege of Paris in 1871, the northern German states, supported by its German allies from outside of the confederation (excluding Austria), formed the German Empire with the proclamation of the Prussian king Wilhelm I of Prussia as German Emperor in the Hall of Mirrors at the Palace of Versailles, to the humiliation of the French, who ceased to resist only days later.

Just for your historical understanding:

The last Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nations (Pre 1512 known as Holy Roman Empire) Francis II was forced to dissolve the HRE, previous to this the made himself Emperor of Austria as Francis I his heir was Ferdinand I, whose heir was Franz Joseph I.

Germany wanted to be reunited.

Quote from Wikipedia:

The model of diplomatic spheres of influence resulting from the Congress of Vienna in 1814–15 after the Napoleonic Wars endorsed Austrian dominance in Central Europe. However, the negotiators at Vienna took no account of Prussia's growing strength within and among the German states, failing to foresee that Prussia would challenge Austria for leadership within the German states. This German dualism presented two solutions to the problem of unification: Kleindeutsche Lösung, the small Germany solution (Germany without Austria), or Großdeutsche Lösung, greater Germany solution (Germany with Austria).

That is why the Austro Prussian War was fought, that is why Austria was not included in the German Empire, but stayed independent.

In short: the Austrian Emperor was the successor to the last Emperor of the HRE, but Prussia became stronger then Austria, challenged Austria for leadership, won and became the dominant power in Germany. Second German Empire is founded whit Prussian King as Emperor and without Austria which stayed independent.

... Résumé: It is up to you Nokmirt wether you want to leave Prussia or make it into Germany for the 1860 start.

nokmirt · Jan 1, 2010

I have finished the tech tree for this part here are two screenshots. I have to add the two ironclads, and start adding Australia and Canada next. Should I create a germany as well. In any case when I think of Prussia, it is most signifcant to me during the Napopleonic Wars.

This will get us through the Age of Ironclads. Then we will have to have another update linking these techs to the Great War Techs, which I will be adding to this, perhaps with some changes.

Ben I will read your post tomorrow, and learn more about Prussia and Austria, no time today too much going on. Happy New Year,
Dave

youknowwhatitis · Jan 1, 2010

this is a nub question i know, but how do you load the mod?
I have never used a mod before

BenGee171 · Jan 2, 2010

this is a nub question i know, but how do you load the mod?
I have never used a mod before

You download to mod from http://www.atomicgamer.com/files/82463/1860-ad , then you unpack the zip file, then you copy and paste or cut and paste the mod folder into this directory:

C:/Program Files/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4/Beyond the Sword/Mods

but depending on the system or where you installed civilization 4 it could look as well like this:

C:/Program Files (x86)/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4/Beyond the Sword/Mods

or

D:/Program Files/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4/Beyond the Sword/Mods

Now, once you have the mod copied into this folder you can go to:
"your Civilization4 installation directory"/Beyond the Sword/Mods/1860 AD/PrivateMaps/

and double click onto "1860AD on GEM.CivBeyondSwordWBSave"

Now it should start up automatically.

BenGee171 · Jan 2, 2010

nokmirt said:
I have finished the tech tree for this part here are two screenshots. I have to add the two ironclads, and start adding Australia and Canada next. Should I create a germany as well. In any case when I think of Prussia, it is most signifcant to me during the Napopleonic Wars.

This will get us through the Age of Ironclads. Then we will have to have another update linking these techs to the Great War Techs, which I will be adding to this, perhaps with some changes.

Ben I will read your post tomorrow, and learn more about Prussia and Austria, no time today too much going on. Happy New Year,
Dave

That are good news. It might make sense to stick with Germany.

BTW, there is something I forgot to mention, you need to add hospitals into the game, make them available, because the health in my big cities is going down and I can not do anything about it.

nokmirt · Jan 2, 2010

BenGee171 said:
That are good news. It might make sense to stick with Germany.

BTW, there is something I forgot to mention, you need to add hospitals into the game, make them available, because the health in my big cities is going down and I can not do anything about it.

Ok, I will put it after environmentalism. I guess it gives you as a player important choices about what techs to pursue, ironclads or hospitals. So the two big techs will be Medicine and Ironclads III. What do you think of a tech called Naval Training, where you can aquire a Naval Academy? I was thinking of putting that after Siege Tactics. Today I will add Germany, Canada, and Australia. Do you have any suggestions for leaders names, or anything else about those civs? I still cannot reach anyone on defensive pacts, no one seems to know why they are not available. I wrote to Genghis_Kai, but he has not returned my message. Is there a way we can re add defensive pacts ourselves?

youknowwhatitis · Jan 2, 2010

BenGee171 said:
You download to mod from http://www.atomicgamer.com/files/82463/1860-ad , then you unpack the zip file, then you copy and paste or cut and paste the mod folder into this directory:

C:/Program Files/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4/Beyond the Sword/Mods

but depending on the system or where you installed civilization 4 it could look as well like this:

C:/Program Files (x86)/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4/Beyond the Sword/Mods

or

D:/Program Files/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4/Beyond the Sword/Mods

Now, once you have the mod copied into this folder you can go to:
"your Civilization4 installation directory"/Beyond the Sword/Mods/1860 AD/PrivateMaps/

and double click onto "1860AD on GEM.CivBeyondSwordWBSave"

Now it should start up automatically.

Thank you

BenGee171 · Jan 2, 2010

You are welcome youknowwhatitis.

@Nokmirt

I think the Rifle an Artillery technology should go on as well.

And what about economical techs or techs which bring city improvements or so.

As well, did you figure out why the defense pact is not working?

We should look into Civics as well. Something more time specific. Like Colonial Empire, Slave Trade, Emancipation.

And maybe more difference between monarchies and republics. Monarchs did not like republics very much, the idea of a republic was a thread to the old order.
And Republics were often based on socialist Ideologies who wanted to rid the whole World of all the Monarchies.

nokmirt · Jan 2, 2010

BenGee171 said:
You are welcome youknowwhatitis.

@Nokmirt

I think the Rifle an Artillery technology should go on as well.

And what about economical techs or techs which bring city improvements or so.

As well, did you figure out why the defense pact is not working?

We should look into Civics as well. Something more time specific. Like Colonial Empire, Slave Trade, Emancipation.

And maybe more difference between monarchies and republics. Monarchs did not like republics very much, the idea of a republic was a thread to the old order.
And Republics were often based on socialist Ideologies who wanted to rid the whole World of all the Monarchies.

Ben we should expand artillery to mountain gun. Ben did you ever play civ III, they have an excellent mod called Age of Imperialism. They are up to version 4 now, it took them awhile to complete it. I want to play it a bit, we can get some ideas on how the techs should go from here.

The problem is I will need a unit I can use as a mountain gun. I could request a unit to be made. I could make a tech called Colonial Empire, and add a civic called Colonial Administration Civic, or like you said call it Colonial Empire. Then we should have an early machine gun unit made, like a gatling for instance. There is so much we can do. I think for now I should concentrate on the basics, add units and leaderheads. And we both can brainstorm for a bit. We will both be doing some useful playtesting soon. When you want I can send you the base mod. Let me know how, or I can post it to my atomic gamer, and give you the link. It will have what I have completed so far, and you can playtest what we have, and I can do the same. We should just take it easy and take our time, there is no rush. In the meantime I will create a copy of the mod to add to it, and keep a copy for playtesting.

I changed the church of Nativity to Jerusalem in the 1861 playtest version, before I send it I want to upgrade some older units, so when countries get or have gunpowder, instead of building longbows, they will build muskets. As far as the Church of Nativity goes, I think it's in Rome because that's what they consider the Holy city, and the spread of Catholicism derives from there. I mean Martin Luther went to nail up the 95 theses, on the pope's door, he did not go to Jerusalem. The Vatican is the center of Catholicism. In anycase let's try it in Jerusalem, and see how it goes. I will have the basic mod ready soon for playtesting, soon as I upgrade old units and add Canada and Australia. I was thinking for now just to leave old techs and units, just easier at the moment. Cold weather here today -15 degrees out, damn. Later, Dave

BenGee171 · Jan 3, 2010

Yes, I did play Age of Imperialism a bit. I am sure we can get a lot of ideas from there.

I agree, Rome is the holy city of Catholicism, but not all Christians are Catholics and Rome is surely not a holy city for all the Orthodox Christian Russians and the Protestant English and Americans.

Fact to the matter is, that the Church of Nativity is in Bethlehem (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_Nativity ) and that Bethlehem is near Jerusalem (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bethlehem_Location.png )

That is why I suggested to make it the Holy Cite of Orthodox Christianity.
But since we have only one Christian religion, it should be the holy cite of Christianity, because Jerusalem is the most holy city for all Christians and it is the place from where Christianity originated.

nokmirt · Jan 3, 2010

BenGee171 said:
Yes, I did play Age of Imperialism a bit. I am sure we can get a lot of ideas from there.

I agree, Rome is the holy city of Catholicism, but not all Christians are Catholics and Rome is surely not a holy city for all the Orthodox Christian Russians and the Protestant English and Americans.

Fact to the matter is, that the Church of Nativity is in Bethlehem (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_Nativity ) and that Bethlehem is near Jerusalem (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bethlehem_Location.png )

That is why I suggested to make it the Holy Cite of Orthodox Christianity.
But since we have only one Christian religion, it should be the holy cite of Christianity, because Jerusalem is the most holy city for all Christians and it is the place from where Christianity originated.

Ok, that's fine and it makes sense. The Church is switched to Jerusalem, and I added Muslim and Catholic holy centers, to the Jewish one's already there. There was a special Muslim church of some sort, might be there match for the Church of Nativity. I did not have time to look and see what it was I will try to look into it further. Right now I have to finish the basics. There still has been no reply about defensive pacts.

BenGee171 · Jan 4, 2010

Jewish and Christian Holy Center is in Jerusalem, whilst Muslim Holy Center is in Mecca.

nokmirt · Jan 5, 2010

Jerusalem Jewish, Rome Christian, Mecca Islam
Just got done adding Ottoman Industrial units they look real good, and on the interface we are in the Industrial Era you were right. Now we have to figure out the problem with defensive pacts.

Thanks Ben

1860 ad

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