Historical India victory

Tboy

Future world ruler
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I've looked at India's historical victory, and the 'Found 5 religons' bit is just insanse and impossible, since other civs will always get there first. I think this should be replaced with something else, perhaps a 'spread Hinduism to 20% in 500AD', that kind of thing?
 
It's not impossible. I was able to do it, but it was based more on luck than skill. Obviously, you'll get Hinduism and Buddism, then rush to Judaism before it's auto-founded in the mideast. I tried to get confusism before the Chinese, but missed it, I managed to get Taoism though before anyone else did. Build the Oracle and grab Theology for Chistianity, 5 religions.

I agree though that this seems like a silly goal for India, but it's not impossible.
 
Well, I still think it's too hard, and that it should be replaced. It may not be impossible, but it's till ridiculously hard.
 
It is too hard since it's based entirely on luck. I think the HVs should be difficult but I think they should be attainable based on skill. India's current HV is just unrealistic and it's more of a tech race than anything else. I agree with you that the spread of hinduism/buddism should be made into a goal rather than having India found all of the world religions...
 
How about... Hinduism/Buudhism are the 2 biggest religions by XXXAD? I don't know what a good year would be though.
 
Sounds like a good idea McA123, maybe 500AD would be good?
 
I agree. That would fit in well with Rod's progressivly difficult HV idea. Found buddism and hinduism, make them the biggest religions, and have the most pop...
 
That sounds like some mad synergy there. We may need to have to watch out on how easy those goals become when taken as a whole. Other than that danger, Found-Spread-Grow sounds like a great set of goals to me.
 
Rhye himself has said that the national goals should match the actual nation's cultural values and philosophy. For that reason, I strongly object to changing India's goal to be the spread of Buddhism/Hinduism. Indian religions are vehemently anti-messianic. Heterodoxy is almost encouraged. That philosophy, that people of many different religions can and should live side by side, is better met by the "found 5 religions" goal.

I agree, however, that founding 5 religions is very difficult, and more luck than skill. How about changing it to either
"Found 4 religions"
or if that's not hard enough,
"Found 4 religions, and each city has at least 2 religions"
 
I agree, however, that founding 5 religions is very difficult, and more luck than skill. How about changing it to either
"Found 4 religions"
or if that's not hard enough,
"Found 4 religions, and each city has at least 2 religions"

Your point about India is a good one. However, founding four religons would still be pretty tough. When I won my HV with India, it was COMPLELTY luck, I haven't been able to do it since. The bigest reason is that, even if you're RACING to get the tech req. to found a religion, you can still miss it because they found themselves... If it wasn't for the Oracle, I never would have gotten Theology and every game I've played since, the barbarians found Judaism before I can come even close to Monotheism... Islam is a given for Arabia, I've never been able to manage Devine Right before they spawn, and China makes a mad dash for the other two... It's REALLY hard.

I think the "multiple religions in each city" is a much better goal. Found Hinduism and Buddhism, first in population by XXXX, and maybe 3 religions per city, this would be challenging enough... I think having two religions per city would be a little too easy though, since India ALWAYS founds two anyway... Three per city would be a much more challenging goal...
 
I'd love to see NitroJay's idea incorporated. Philosophical diversity is much more reflective of Indian culture than spawning the rest of the world's major religions. I imagine the Indian tech-tree gets pretty messed up after a failed religious rush, so requiring a non-dharmic faith in every city would encourage the player to act a little more historically than before.
 
Nitrojay's idea sounds good, as India really is and was a quite diverse country. Having three religions in every city by XXXXAD sounds like a better goal to me.

So, to sumarrise my goal ideas:
1.Found Hinduism and Buddhism.
2.Have the largest share of the worlds population in 1200AD.
3.Have at least 3 religions in every city in 1300AD (this one's a little harder, so give it some more time).
 
You've got my support! :goodjob:
 
An "update" of sorts: just played through 1200 on an India game. Getting 5 is indeed hard -- China beat me to Confucianism by 3, and Arabia (and therefore Islam) came into existence when I was 20 turns from Divine Right.

I had a spectularly lucky start, and because of that, I expect to win this game on one of the traditional routes (probably space race). I was under-militarized -- something I often do, but exacerbated by racing for religion techs. I was only able to plant one city westward when Persia materialized. They ended up with Buddhist and Hinduist cities, and every time they switched religions, I switched accordingly to keep them friendly. They were extremely powerful, and I knew I'd lose a war. Finally, the same-religion love-fest wore thin, and Persia declared war on me -- and wouldn't you know it, the same turn, Arabia appears! We gang up on Persia, and 2 turns later, Persia collapses, with its 2 largest cities going to barbarian and then flipping to me. That pushed my western border all the way to modern Iran's border. I cosied up to Arabia, and that left me free to take over Indochina at my leisure -- and therefore zoom back into the lead.
 
Just my $0.02:
-I've tried a bunch of times to found 5 religions, and I can't do it (I'm not a noob, either:).
-Though I like the suggestions about spreading several religions among your cities, another possibility might be to build the religious buildings (i.e. holy shrines) of several religions. It's a bit more difficult than just founding the religions themselves.
 
I like the proposed changes to India's UHV, but I would just like to point out that Buddhism is not as anti-missionary as people think. Ashoka is the Indian leader in RFC and he was an enthusiastic sponsor of Buddhist missionary activity. He was completely tolerant of other religions, but was eafer to help Buddhism spread by consent.

As another example, I've recently been reading the classic Chinese epic "Monkey", loosely based on the true story of a Chinese Buddhist monk who went on a pilgramage to India to retrieve Buddhist artifacts. The epic was used to help spread Buddhism in China and regularly portrays Taoist priests as corrupt and idiotic.
 
You can get Judaism, if you go for it first, works fine for me every time (though on Viceroy), Theology comes from Oracle, but then it gets tricky, Mathematics and Calendar are hard too reach before the Chinese. And Divine Right takes ages, which only ruins your special unit. You can't even spend you GP on tech since they always spend themselves on CoL. I was lucky last time and founded Taoism and Confuzianism but i missed the third goal.

Maybe this strat could still be refined. You could take Math from the oracle and research calendar, which goes nice with your resources. But then you should scout around pretty extensively to get some worker tech from a hut.
 
Like I've said before, 5 religions founded by India is "possible," I've done it myself, but it ruins your tech tree and makes for a really UN-fun game... This is the one UHV that really needs to be changed...
 
It messes up both gameplay and realism, but I think Rhye said he didn't like the suggestions in this thread.
 
This is not one of my strong subjects, but wasn't India relatively stable as far as not being conquered for most of history? Maybe a goal should be "no Indian cities conquered before 1700"?
 
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