Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.
All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.
VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 33
Discussion Thread: (4-33) Proposal: Buff India's UA (Part 1 - Passive Pressure)
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @azum4roll
Proposal Details
Current India's UA:
1. Starts with Pantheon
2. Great Prophets 35% cheaper
6. UNDOCUMENTED: Does not suffer from Religious Unrest
For reference, how passive pressure works:
All "distance" explicitly or implicitly mentioned below refers to trade route distance.
Majority religion of a city emits 6 pressure per turn to all other cities within range (= trade route range), modified by pressure modifiers and India's UA. Actual pressure reaching other cities is reduced by distance; less pressure for cities further away. Trade route targets receive pressure as if they're 0 distance from the source. As a result, pressure to a given city can be increased by building religious buildings, building roads/railroads, building trade route lengthening buildings, having Global Commandments, or just sending a trade route.
India's UA is essentially giving 0.6 pressure per follower, after all modifiers.
India's increased pressure has the following problems that hinder its use:
1. It's based on the number of followers of his primary religion, but India often has troubles keeping it due to the inability to purchase missionaries, relying entirely on passive pressure and prophets to spread it.
The Proposal:
1. Instead of 10% Religious Pressure, an Indian city emits 1 flat Pressure per follower, capped at 24 followers
VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 33a
Discussion Thread: (4-33a) Counterproposal: India GP generates 2000 pressure in each city
Proposer: @Stalker0
Sponsor: @Recursive
Proposal Details
Proposal: Change India UA from - "All owned cities convert when you found a religion"
to
"When you found a religion, and for every Great Prophet created after the founding, all owned cities gain 2000 religious pressure for the founded religion"
Rationale: The original proposal and this counter are in agreement that India needs a better way to protect itself from foreign religious spread. The primary difference is, the original proposal also adds more "religious offense" to Gandhi's suite, which people may not find desirable.
This version gives Gandhi a notable pressure increase with each GP made, to help reinforce its cities against foreign religion. At the same time, it also helps you get your religion to newly founded cities or cities farther away from India's core, which right now basically requires spending GP slots. At the same time, this version is more defensive, it does not increase Gandhi's passive spread to other civs.
EDIT: Added clarifying language to confirm it is always 2000 "founding religious" pressure, and not pantheon pressure. No change in context.
VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 33b
Discussion Thread: (4-33b) Proposal: Buff India's UA (Part 2 - Growth/Food)
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @azum4roll
Proposal Details
Current India's UA:
1. Starts with Pantheon
2. Great Prophets 35% cheaper
6. UNDOCUMENTED: Does not suffer from Religious Unrest
The Proposal:
Instead of 2% Growth per follower, each follower provides 1% Food to the city.
Rationale:
Food can help with mitigating distress unhappiness and working more specialists, while growth only helps growing the city which provides potential yield per turn increase after certain turns, and potentially raising unhappiness which can LOWER growth.
With Food instead of Growth, you won't feel losing out if you need to avoid growth for whatever reason.
EDIT 1: Changed to 1% Food (was 2%).
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.
All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.
VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 33
Discussion Thread: (4-33) Proposal: Buff India's UA (Part 1 - Passive Pressure)
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @azum4roll
Proposal Details
Current India's UA:
1. Starts with Pantheon
2. Great Prophets 35% cheaper
This roughly translates to 1 more Prophet over the game, and the first one comes earlier
3. All owned cities convert when you found a ReligionOwned cities get just enough pressure to convert (currently bugged at certain population numbers)
4. Each follower of State Religion in an Indian city provides 2% Growth and emits 10% more Religious Pressure, if the State Religion is the Majority Religion of the cityNote that there's no bonus if the city isn't following the State Religion
Pressure bonus is capped at 350%, or 35 followers
5. Cannot build Missionaries6. UNDOCUMENTED: Does not suffer from Religious Unrest
For reference, how passive pressure works:
All "distance" explicitly or implicitly mentioned below refers to trade route distance.
Majority religion of a city emits 6 pressure per turn to all other cities within range (= trade route range), modified by pressure modifiers and India's UA. Actual pressure reaching other cities is reduced by distance; less pressure for cities further away. Trade route targets receive pressure as if they're 0 distance from the source. As a result, pressure to a given city can be increased by building religious buildings, building roads/railroads, building trade route lengthening buildings, having Global Commandments, or just sending a trade route.
India's UA is essentially giving 0.6 pressure per follower, after all modifiers.
India's increased pressure has the following problems that hinder its use:
1. It's based on the number of followers of his primary religion, but India often has troubles keeping it due to the inability to purchase missionaries, relying entirely on passive pressure and prophets to spread it.
For example, you can simply quash India's religion by spending one missionary spread on each Indian city once you found. India can found a religion early, but not early enough to accumulate 1000 pressure on his cities before others found.
2. There are other common sources of pressure% such as Temple and most religious buildings which make the pressure% from UA matter less due to diminishing returns.The Proposal:
1. Instead of 10% Religious Pressure, an Indian city emits 1 flat Pressure per follower, capped at 24 followers
Unlike the current 0.6 Pressure per follower, this would be before modifiers
This essentially doubles the pressure from a city for every 6 followers, capped at 500% of base pressure at 24 followers
It's a UA, and should be impactful to offset the con of not being able to build missionaries to spread
2. Instead of barely converting owned cities when founding religion, each non-holy city of India gets 1000 pressure of the new religionThis should help kickstart their religion, and prevent others from easily converting them early on
It's possible but very unlikely that the cities don't convert, so we shouldn't have to change the UA wordings
VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 33a
Discussion Thread: (4-33a) Counterproposal: India GP generates 2000 pressure in each city
Proposer: @Stalker0
Sponsor: @Recursive
Proposal Details
Proposal: Change India UA from - "All owned cities convert when you found a religion"
to
"When you found a religion, and for every Great Prophet created after the founding, all owned cities gain 2000 religious pressure for the founded religion"
Rationale: The original proposal and this counter are in agreement that India needs a better way to protect itself from foreign religious spread. The primary difference is, the original proposal also adds more "religious offense" to Gandhi's suite, which people may not find desirable.
This version gives Gandhi a notable pressure increase with each GP made, to help reinforce its cities against foreign religion. At the same time, it also helps you get your religion to newly founded cities or cities farther away from India's core, which right now basically requires spending GP slots. At the same time, this version is more defensive, it does not increase Gandhi's passive spread to other civs.
EDIT: Added clarifying language to confirm it is always 2000 "founding religious" pressure, and not pantheon pressure. No change in context.
VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 33b
Discussion Thread: (4-33b) Proposal: Buff India's UA (Part 2 - Growth/Food)
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @azum4roll
Proposal Details
Current India's UA:
1. Starts with Pantheon
2. Great Prophets 35% cheaper
This roughly translates to 1 more Prophet over the game, and the first one comes earlier
3. All owned cities convert when you found a ReligionOwned cities get just enough pressure to convert (currently bugged at certain population numbers)
4. Each follower of State Religion in an Indian city provides 2% Growth and emits 10% more Religious Pressure, if the State Religion is the Majority Religion of the cityNote that there's no bonus if the city isn't following the State Religion
Pressure bonus is capped at 350%, or 35 followers
5. Cannot build Missionaries6. UNDOCUMENTED: Does not suffer from Religious Unrest
The Proposal:
Instead of 2% Growth per follower, each follower provides 1% Food to the city.
Rationale:
Food can help with mitigating distress unhappiness and working more specialists, while growth only helps growing the city which provides potential yield per turn increase after certain turns, and potentially raising unhappiness which can LOWER growth.
With Food instead of Growth, you won't feel losing out if you need to avoid growth for whatever reason.
EDIT 1: Changed to 1% Food (was 2%).
