Future Civ3 SGOTMs

[AlanH]

The Civ3 SGOTM series has some challenges:

1. Player participation is dropping:



Extending the current trend, an SGOTM 15 may only have 20 signed up players and three teams. If there are only three teams then it may be better simply to play informal SGs rather than running a formal competition.

2. The last three games took around six months. This may be a sign of reducing interest among the remaining players.

3. We have no resident game designer/tester. I am not competent to do this task, and it seems the few players who might be interested and capable are also likely to want to take part.

I welcome your comments and discussion here.

 

[greatbeyond]

Hmm, is this a challenge I want to take? I still like playing Civ3 and enjoy the SG format, especially learning from the "Masters" of the game. I don't have as deep a grasp of the hidden mechanics as the best players, but does that mean I can't challenge them? Can someone point me to a better alternative to the Civ3 editor, or enhancements? I have to confess, I may feel I have to resort to some dirty tricks to cripple the humans, who always seem to win!

I suppose the first thing to do for anyone who is considering this, is to come up with the basic idea and then develop a map and civs, then tweaking with some surprises. Some ideas have been kicked around in the SGOTM15 ideas thread, so that might be a good starting place.

I have just been inspired with an idea. Will it grow and bear fruit? I'll see what happens over the holidays when I have some time off.

 

[I. Larkin]

1. Player participation is dropping:

Really it is a problem. One of the point is that 4 last games was militaristic and very long: Spaceship and Diplo at these maps needed a lot of war. We need edit game rules to make it a) faster b) atract players of different style.

2. The last three games took around six months. This may be a sign of reducing interest among the remaining players.

This is defect of C3C, when brutal military force is an key for victory. It takes time for popper management of 100+ units. We have to design game (map, VC) to avoid this.

3. We have no resident game designer/tester. I am not competent to do this task, and it seems the few players who might be interested and capable are also likely to want to take part.

. It is most severe problem. But I believe most of the setting can be varified theoretically by experienced participants and only map will be generated by "staff" .

 

[krakedhalo]

As for # of players, there may be a fair number of people like me around who weren't ready to play SGOTMs before, but are now. It has been over a year since SGOTM 14 started, so that's a year's worth of new(er) people. I'd definitely be in for SG15 if it gets going, and there may be other new SGers too.

 

[Lanzelot]

Can we just have a poll to see, how many of the "old warriors" are still around, and how many new players willing to play SGOTM have been attracted in the past year?

Lanzelot

 

[AlanH]

Feel free to open a poll. My experience tells me it would produce zero useful information, which is why I didn't attach one to this thread.

 

[Lanzelot]

Feel free to open a poll.

Hmm, don't know how to do it...

But would it not at least tell us the total number of people who are still interested in having an SGOTM? And if it's 30 or more like in SGOTM14, then we know it's worth investing time into it and setting one up?!

I can also try and drum up a bit attention for it in the PBEM community, where I'm currently participating.

Lanzelot

 

[AlanH]

Just create a new thread and say you want to create a poll. Then you will be asked for the questions and other details. If you really can't cope, then tell me what questions you think it should ask, and I'll post it for you. Getting the questions right is the main challenge.

I may be getting too cynical in my old age, but I believe a poll is most unlikely to give useful data. Either very few will bother to answer, or people will say they will play but many of them will drop out when it comes to sign-up.

I still don't think the numbers are the only problem.

 

[I. Larkin]

I still don't think the numbers are the only problem.

Indeed.
Rather than poll we may continue discussion here just to see, who, when, and at wich format we want to play sgtom 15 and who can take care about organization of it.

 

[Cyc]

Personally, I agree with Lanzelot.

I have always been a Civ3 Demogamer, although I have dabbled in a Civ4 Demogame and a Never-Ending-Story. I would be interested in trying a succession game if it was slanted towards a builder's game. Can't stand mindless military games. Way too boring.

I believe if you do the 1/6/1 Spear it would be effective in quelling the itch you all will have to build SODs and prove your manhood by killing others. Have that Spear upgrade to Infantry. Allow time for civilizations to reach the civilization stage. Then beat them. You might consider increasing the cost of the Spear.

I think that change alone would do the trick, but if you like the "start as a Democracy" try it. War Weariness wil probably be a big draw back. I also would prefer to play the Huge Pangaea. Building a Navy to win an eventual land battle wastes precious time.

There were some other good suggestions in the other thread, can't remember now, will check.

EDIT: Probably remove the pillage ability of the Spear. I would also remove Military Tradition from the game. Shake this game up.

 

[Paul#42]

I still love the game and especially this SGotm competition.

But I must admit I won't find the time to play it the way it should be played.

Recent games were a pain especially for the team captains. :suicide:

So what I'm saying: I won't be attending a SGotm 15.

 

[milr]

I've not played an SGOTM before, in part because I incorrectly assumed it was played 'online', and I don't care to play that way, both for personal and security reasons.

I rarely play for military victories, and when I have done so, I've not done well at it. So the comments in this thread about military SGOTM's applies to me. But I have looked over the SGOTM rules, etc. today, and intend to sign up for the next SGOTm, when and if it starts this year - even if the victory condition requires lots of military action. However, my druthers would be for a somewhat peaceful game. For example, one in which the human team could not initiate war (either through self action, or through the initiation of an alliance that would likely result in the team being drawn into an existing war-in-progress). I like the Diplomatic Victory condition, or some variant thereof (e.g., additional points for each favorable vote encourages team to help weak CIVs throughout the game to keep them alive to finish. Any team not scoring a diplomatic victory would be ranked below all those recording a diplomatic victory).

Difficulty level should be pretty high, to speed up AI tech research, but not so high as to be a serious obstacle to victory.

Am I not clear on team conduct/discussion during play of game. Does the team review and discuss play at each 'turnover', prior to the next team player's round of turns, with goals then provided by the team leader at turnover? if yes, how long is discussion period. Also, how many moves constitute a 'turn'? While within a round of turns, may the player seek team guidance on events (e.g., what to do with a newly acquired Great Leader). Are any of the GOTM14 team threads available for viewing now to help newbies get a feel for conduct of play?

 

[AlanH]

Am I not clear on team conduct/discussion during play of game. Does the team review and discuss play at each 'turnover', prior to the next team player's round of turns, with goals then provided by the team leader at turnover? if yes, how long is discussion period. Also, how many moves constitute a 'turn'? While within a round of turns, may the player seek team guidance on events (e.g., what to do with a newly acquired Great Leader). Are any of the GOTM14 team threads available for viewing now to help newbies get a feel for conduct of play?

Typical turn sets are 10 turns, but it's up to the team to adjust this to taste. Usually there's a brief discussion of strategy and tactics between turn sets, and the active player can ask for guidance from the rest of the team at any time.

All previous team threads are available. The forum listing default is to show threads updated in the last 100 days. Just change that to "beginning" to see all the old SGOTM threads.

 

[Lanzelot]

3. We have no resident game designer/tester. I am not competent to do this task, and it seems the few players who might be interested and capable are also likely to want to take part.

How about the following: we have I.Larkin's Greek game. I tested it up to 1000BC and found it quite playable. I also think it will lend itself as a "builder's game" instead of "mindless military game". Perhaps two or three experienced players also give it a shot up to 1000BC and tell us their opinion.

If we feel it's good enough for an SGOTM, we need a volunteer from the staff (or otherwise) with just a basic familiarity of the Editor. He would then load the map, change the outline & location of the landmasses a bit, reshuffle the resources, reshuffle the AIs and incorporate the few suggestions that we'll come up with in the other thread. That shouldn't take too much time. (I think I.Larkin has already done most of the work.)
Then a staff member only has to setup the sign-up and team threads (the players will probably be willing to take over some of the work, if you tell us what to do), and off we go!

Lanzelot

 

[AlanH]

I don't have a problem doing the admin, but I have to say, I'm not enthusiastic if it's only going to be for a dozen players.

Not sure if I can do the map editing. Does Ivan have a .BIQ file to start from?

 

[Lanzelot]

I'm not enthusiastic if it's only going to be for a dozen players.

Well, that's what I wanted to have the poll for... You are probably right that it won't give us exact numbers about the expected participation when it comes to actually signing up, but I still think it will give us at least an idea about whether it's worth investing the time into a new SGOTM.

I think I'll set one up after all...

Lanzelot

 

[Haydn]

How can one download previous SGOTM starting files, so that one can play the games and try to learn from them?

 

[AlanH]

How can one download previous SGOTM starting files, so that one can play the games and try to learn from them?

Go to the Progress and Results page.

Select the game you want to play, and click Display.

Below the Team list table, select Display Format: List of Saves, and click Refresh.

All the saves submitted by the teams are linked in the table that appears, with the start saves first. Click a link to download the file.

You can see all the previous team discussion threads in this forum if you change the display settings in the forum list to 'Since the Beginning' instead of 'Since 100 days'

You can also see an animated replay of any team's game, and compare two teams, if you go to the Replay utility. Select Game Type: Civ3 SGOTM, select the game you want, and select one or two team names. Use the controls to step through the game and see the territorial development and events list, click on the map to see city events. The graphs show various game parameters.

 

[Lanzelot]

Ok, the poll that I started a month ago is now over.

The good news is: only 4 people said "no thanks"! So let's start!

Ok, ok, just kidding... The bad news is: even if we include the "maybes", we only get a total number of 15 players willing to participate.

I guess this pretty much settles the issue? Try again in October?

Lanzelot

 

[templar_x]

15 players could form 3-4 teams, and if the staff will again go as a staff team, it would be even one more ready for a good challenge.... , no?

templar_x