(4-NS) Make Colonist found puppets instead

[amateurgamer88]

Original Proposal Here.

New Proposal:
Make Pioneer and Colonist settle puppet cities instead, and add a new instant building for Pioneer and Colonist called Colony.

Colony:
No maintenance
100% Capture Chance
Eliminate extra Unhappiness from an Occupied City
+50% Maintenance to all Buildings if City is a puppet
City cannot be Razed.
Spawns one Luxury Resource on a tile. (Luxury Resource is one that didn't spawn during map generation. Maybe have a pool of 3 luxuries that gets picked from after map generation?)
Spawns 3 quantity of a random Strategic Resource on a tile. Strategic Resource must be revealed by the City owner.

Rationale:
The counterproposal aims to accomplish the following:

• Make mid-game expansion (Pioneers) and late-game expansion (Colonist) viable and more attractive
  • With a Luxury Resource and Strategic Resource spawning, the new Cities have greater potential.
  • Colonists serve the role of both securing a strategic location and possibly spawning a desirable strategic resource (like Coal)
• Make "colonies" worthwhile Cities to target at times
  • Depending on the Luxury and/or Strategic Resources spawned, the city may have value to warmongers
• Have some downsides so players have to weigh the pros and cons
  • If the City is a puppet, then building Maintenance is increased by 50%. There's a tradeoff where the Cities either drain your treasury while they get developed as puppets or they are underdeveloped and slows down tech and policies.
  • Addresses the issue where this strengthens Wide only and hurts Tall. Wide will either have even less Gold or falls behind somewhat in techs and policies.
• Little more thematic
  • Colonies serve to export raw resources. These new expansion will provide them in the form of a Luxury and some Strategic Resources.
  • Colonies don't have the same level of loyalty towards their civilization so they won't suffer Occupation Unhappiness when conquered and annexed by foreign powers

 

[Solic]

The pool of luxuries thing should be made concrete, because if it's a big pool then it will be made very easy to get new monopolies which can be very strong like +10% culture.

My own opinion is that wide doesn't need more buffs and late game settling is in a good place when it's only for strategic spot settling when it relates to warfare. Either an extra defensive spot or a new base from which you can more easily invade other civs.

 

[amateurgamer88]

The pool of luxuries thing should be made concrete, because if it's a big pool then it will be made very easy to get new monopolies which can be very strong like +10% culture.

My own opinion is that wide doesn't need more buffs and late game settling is in a good place when it's only for strategic spot settling when it relates to warfare. Either an extra defensive spot or a new base from which you can more easily invade other civs.

I agree that the pool should be limited to possibly 5 luxuries to avoid easy monopolies. I didn't go in depth because I actually don't know what's possible and what isn't to code.

I see my counterproposal as more neutral as opposed to a buff for wide. More resources and a decent City at the cost of extra maintenance or higher tech/policy cost breaks even (in my opinion at least). This also gives warmongers a choice where their expansion either cost Gold (that may be needed for units) or have higher tech/policy cost.

 

[azum4roll]

It's still free monopolies if you get lucky, and the strategic resource is a roulette. Plus good luck making sure the spawned luxury follow all placement rules.

 

[amateurgamer88]

It's still free monopolies if you get lucky, and the strategic resource is a roulette. Plus good luck making sure the spawned luxury follow all placement rules.

If people don't want free monopolies, we can only limit the Luxury Resources to those that spawned on the map already. In addition to Luxuries that are "assigned" to each start, there are other ones that are fewer in numbers and more scattered on the map. We can use those resources as the pool which the 'Colony' picks from.

As for placement, we can always have the resource spawn beneath the City. With the City cannot be razed, the resource would be like those given to CS like Jewelry and cannot be stolen by Citadels.

 

[azum4roll]

If people don't want free monopolies, we can only limit the Luxury Resources to those that spawned on the map already. In addition to Luxuries that are "assigned" to each start, there are other ones that are fewer in numbers and more scattered on the map. We can use those resources as the pool which the 'Colony' picks from.

As for placement, we can always have the resource spawn beneath the City. With the City cannot be razed, the resource would be like those given to CS like Jewelry and cannot be stolen by Citadels.

Then you start removing monopolies from people who luckily got them, by adding one more copy to the map.

I definitely don't want more unrazeable cities.

 

[N.Core]

For me, the point of making Colonists found puppets as a viable settlement is to get some existing inhabited resources. Making Colonists able to spawn resources kinda defeats the entire point. You instead keep on expanding without having to worry about having no resources to work with.

 

[amateurgamer88]

For me, the point of making Colonists found puppets as a viable settlement is to get some existing inhabited resources. Making Colonists able to spawn resources kinda defeats the entire point. You instead keep on expanding without having to worry about having no resources to work with.

How much land do you have to keep on expanding? One Luxury Resource and one Strategic Resource isn't going to make a terrible location viable, especially when you need time to make a new City worthwhile. If you're willing to pay the extra building maintenance or have an underdeveloped City which slows you down, that's a choice.

 

[Recursive]

Eliminate extra Unhappiness from an Occupied City

1) This feature is not necessary for the city founder because your own cities are never considered occupied.
2) If enemies capture the city, they won't suffer occupation penalties either. Intended?

 

[amateurgamer88]

1) This feature is not necessary for the city founder because your own cities are never considered occupied.
2) If enemies capture the city, they won't suffer occupation penalties either. Intended?

Good to know about 1.

Regarding 2, it's intended due to "colonies" not having the same level of loyalty towards civilizations as standard cities. Even without the need to build a Courthouse, there's the higher building maintenance as a puppet or underdevelopment with annexed City. This will save the occupier at most a few turns that's needed for Courthouse. Updated the OP.

Thanks!

 

[Recursive]

Proposal failed due to lack of sponsorship.