SGOTM 18 Pregame Discussion Thread - Austin Powers

[AlanH]

Please use this thread to discuss or raise questions about the game rules before it starts.

Please don't speculate about your team strategies here. Wait until you have a private team thread - and you know which teams you are allocated to.

NOTE: Detailed questions about the scenario may not get answers until Dr Evil kcd_swede gets back in a week's time.

 

[LowtherCastle]

To summarize, the objectives are as follows:

3) The Swinger’s Pad is Legendary without using Great Works (“culture bombs&#8221

1. Does it have to have come out of revolt or can it just be ours and have 50,000 ?

2. Difficulty level?


.

 

[Deckhand]

3) The Swinger’s Pad is Legendary without using Great Works (“culture bombs”)

Do I understand correctly that we can use Hermitage, Creative Constructions, Lots of Artists and all the traditional Culture approaches - anything but Great Work artist bombs?
Espionage through Culture is not required, although it may be needed to meet a reasonable date.

 

[Jastrow]

Wow... So now we are being essentially FORCED to use an obviously gamey exploit in order to even be competitive. I guess this competition really has degenerated into who can exploit the code better, a opposed to who can play civ... I will have to think for a while to see if I am interested in that....

 

[Mitchum]

Hmmmm.... if it's an "exploit" that every team is fully aware of and will be using, is it really an exploit? I see it as a hurdle on the way to victory; something to be studied, understood, planned and executed.

For the most part, this appears to be a builder's game (maybe with a few wars thrown in to add some spice ). Sounds right up your alley to me...

 

[Gumbolt]

One assumes we are not able/allowed to gift the Swingers pad to another AI on T1 to avoid it being captured?

 

[UnforcedError]

Sorry if this had been mentioned somewhere... Which leader (traits) is that?

 

[Ronnie1]

Wow... So now we are being essentially FORCED to use an obviously gamey exploit in order to even be competitive. I guess this competition really has degenerated into who can exploit the code better, a opposed to who can play civ... I will have to think for a while to see if I am interested in that....

I do not believe that using Spy Culture in this game will necessarily be "forced" into use. Indeed, this objective, "c. Culture Victory where Culture Through Espionage does not exceed 4000 culture (emphasis added) in at least two of your Legendary Cities." only allows for a maximum of 58,000 total culture out of 150,000 required. Given ALL of the requirements combined, how much effort goes to espionage culture is at least a question to be considered imo.

 

[Manco Capac]

And it is FORBIDDEN to change civics BEFORE the Swinger’s Pad is captured by Fat Bastard.

Not that it changes something, because if I recall correctly, once the Mids are lost, your civic are returning to your last one.

Since the flimsy and implausible premise for this scenario is relying on space/time travel, I want you to know that you start with the Technology of Fusion.

Does it mean we get a free GEngineer?

Goldmember is leading a Minor Civ[...]
You have contact with all civilizations at game start, but they each like Dr. Evil better than they like you, because he is smarter, more intelligent, more clever, more shrewd and more cool (so cool, in fact, if he were any cooler, he’d still be frozen). Mwahahaha!

OMG! That's the very suggestion I have made.

 

[Doshin]

Austin Powers is American?

 

[Manco Capac]

One assumes we are not able/allowed to gift the Swingers pad to another AI on T1 to avoid it being captured?

Anyways, I think that ain't gonna work because you can't give your capital away.

 

[Deckhand]

Does it mean we get a free GEngineer?

That would be nice!

My assumption was that this was his evil way of keeping us from getting a GEngineer.

 

[Manco Capac]

By the look of the screenies, we don't have it. Not that matters much we can't have it for later as this GPeople is so late, it has few uses to none.

 

[Seraiel]

Austin Powers is American?

Lol, no! Austin of course is British ^^

Austins "shaggedalic" friends sometimes are american, sometimes they're chinese, doesn't matter as long as they're looking good and have funny names, but Austin even drives a "Shaguar" .

 

[BLubmuz]

If i'm not mistaken (it's impossible, but just for nicety), we already discussed the "Require Complete Kills" option in BtS and we decided that it's broken due to spies and so we (the people active in the GotM Forums and the Staff) decided to avoid it.

I don't think anyone would play a game with a broken option.

then, this is not clear to me:

4) You win the game by one of these conditions:
a. Spaceship lands at Alpha Centauri
b. UN diplomatic victory with 2 civs voting for you
c. Culture Victory where Culture Through Espionage does not exceed 4000 culture in at least two of your Legendary Cities.
5) You win the game in any fashion, including the above, but also including Conquest/Domination/Time/Religion/UN with less than 2 other civs votes/Culture VC that does not comply with above restrictions/and anything else not covered.

Does not 5) overrun 4) ?
As i understand it, while 4) ties to three specific VCs at choice, 5) opens any VC, making 4) null.

Please reformulate the quoted points. Since this time are not required 2 simultaneous VCs, they won't make sense.

 

[UnforcedError]

^^I think it's more like achievement 4 automatically fulfills achievement 5, isn't it?

Also, as for require complete kills: since apparently the capital will be taken next turn and there is no guarantee that the second city could be settled prior to that it is actually necessary to stay in the game? I agree on the spies issue though.

 

[BLubmuz]

^^I think it's more like achievement 4 automatically fulfills achievement 5, isn't it?

Yes and no.
I see a restriction in 4 and an open choice in 5. It's true that 4 is "included" in 5, but remains the fact the 5 overrule 4, making it useless and confusing.

If the intention of the game designer is:
a) allow only the VCs listed in 4, 5 must be deleted
b) allow any VC of choice 4 must be deleted.
It's a matter of logic, not opinions.

Also, as for require complete kills: since apparently the capital will be taken next turn and there is no guarantee that the second city could be settled prior to that it is actually necessary to stay in the game? I agree on the spies issue though.

Yes, that can be the reason, but remains the fact that that option is broken and can cause many problems in a BtS game. I suggest to the mapmaker to find a solution which can avoid that option. Some suggestion can be to presettle the city which will soon became the Capital or to move away the units to give 2-3 turns to settle the future Capital. I suppose noone will SiP or just 1 tile away from the start.

 

[Folket]

Yes, if you complete objective #4, then objective #5 is also completed (two for the price of one). Objective #5 is to give you incentive to play on even after you realize that you will fail Objective #4.

Laurels will be awarded to the team completing the most number of objectives, and ties in that regard will be decided by how fast you can do it.

We do not need to argue about that. But on the other hand.

You MUST use Free Religion civic as soon as (or if) you learn Liberalism, and then may not switch out of Free Religion until the end of the game

Breaking conditions on use of Liberalism requiring Free Speech or changing civics on turn zero is grounds for disqualification

Either both statements are true. Which mean you will disqualify anyone not using free Speech even if it is not against the rules. Or more likely one or both of these statements should be updated to match eachother.

 

[Doshin]

Yes and no.
I see a restriction in 4 and an open choice in 5. It's true that 4 is "included" in 5, but remains the fact the 5 overrule 4, making it useless and confusing.

If the intention of the game designer is:
a) allow only the VCs listed in 4, 5 must be deleted
b) allow any VC of choice 4 must be deleted.
It's a matter of logic, not opinions.

Objective 4 is inclusive of 5, but 5 is exclusive of 4. The team that achieves the most conditions in the shortest amount of time wins. Therefore a team that manages 1-5 in 2000 AD with objective 4 satisfying objective 5 ("you win the game in any fashion") will beat a team that manages 1-3 + 5 in 2000 BC.

 

[BLubmuz]

Objective 4 is inclusive of 5, but 5 is exclusive of 4. The team that achieves the most conditions in the shortest amount of time wins. Therefore a team that manages 1-5 in 2000 AD with objective 4 satisfying objective 5 ("you win the game in any fashion") will beat a team that manages 1-3 + 5 in 2000 BC.

Thus the meaning of #4 and #5 is that you can continue play after the Victory screen to achieve another VC. Does this means also that you can win - say - by Domination and then satisfy #4 in any way you like? Which one is mandatory for a Medal? I presume #4, but just to be safe...

About Liberalism, i understand it in this way: you're forced by the rules of this particular "scenario" to adopt FR as soon as you get Lib and to stay in it. But FP is not mandatory, thus it's a player's choice.