aCK-3 The Cat with the Hat

[Whosit]

Well, I sent you a PM, too, but I'd like to publicly remark that I strongly oppose reloading a turn in order to change an outcome. If it was a matter of misclicking something or making some kind of routine mistake, that would be OK. But I think that this kind of reload is the same thing as reloading to try to get a better result on a combat roll. It's a shame it happened, but we'll just have to roll with the punches, I think.

 

[The Simple Mind]

Whosit, I agree. I just want to see if anyone felt strongly for re-doing the inherited turn.

 

[IamJohn]

I agree, in addition see if you can get some gold from Toku while you're at it.

 

[Whosit]

I agree, in addition see if you can get some gold from Toku while you're at it.

Wait . . . are you agree with us that reloading would be cheating, or are you agreeing with the notion that we should reload and make changes? I really think that it would be against the spirit of the game to use future knowledge in order to change what we have already done.

 

[IamJohn]

Wait . . . are you agree with us that reloading would be cheating, or are you agreeing with the notion that we should reload and make changes? I really think that it would be against the spirit of the game to use future knowledge in order to change what we have already done.

First of all this is a team game, so I went what I thought what you said when I read it way too quickly and reversed in my mind what you said.

Personally imo something like HC capitulating is broken and vastely unrealistic (well for a computer game). It's a broken game mechanic that I've never liked from the start, therefore in my private games I ignore it, either by disallowing it when I start the game, or simply reverting it if I forget.

Playing on though always makes the game more interesting, so hey, I'm fully with just continuing on.

We do need to do something with our army however, as we just invested a ton into it. IMO we need to invade someone otherwise it's a lot of resources that just went to waste.

 

[Whosit]

We do need to do something with our army however, as we just invested a ton into it. IMO we need to invade someone otherwise it's a lot of resources that just went to waste.

I suppose there's always our "pal" Sury . . . .

 

[IamJohn]

Yeah, that was what I was thinking, we really don't have any other option unless we want to wade through Toku and HC's forces at the same time.

 

[The Simple Mind]

One problem with going after Sury is that we are way behind him on tech and we don't have enough spy points to tell what he is teching. He has 6 cavs that we know about. Do we defend our borders and push for diplo / space win?

There is an island to the south east with a couple of barb cities that we could use our troops on to expand to land.

I'll wait until for the whole team's feed back before changing course.

 

[luukjn]

Lurker comment

If you are going for diplo, you will first have to get some Buddhism spread in Hannibals land. But I doubt it will be possible. You need 603 votes for diplo (AP), I don't know how the capitulation of HC influences his votes, but at the moment HC will vote for himself (pre capitulation). Toku will vote for you guys, but Sury will vote HC, or probably abstain. If you get Sury's votes a diplo win is done. If not, diplo win is far of. On the other hand, the next residence votes are up in 13 turns, so a lot can happen in that time before you have to consider it (and you guys make a good change on becoming the next in residence with your own and toku's votes).

The best bet is probably space (if you manage to out tech sury), or conquest/domination.

[edit] I checked your changes post capitulation of HC, Sury will vote for you guys, but you lost Toku's votes (he will vote for himself), this means that you might have to aggressively get on hannibals better side to even make a change (and get him to Buddhism of course).[/edit]

 

[IamJohn]

If I remember right we are at war with Hannibal, has that changed?

As for using religion the thing that worries me is that we are getting pretty close to free religion, but on the other hand he is pretty backwards in tech, so we may still have a chance to get to him before he adopts it and negates the shared religion bonus.

 

[luukjn]

yeah, you are still at war the last time I checked, I did not check to see what hannibal wants for peace. But war does not mean he will never vote for you again, or something like that, get him to your religion, gift him some techs and he will be pleased/friendly in no time

Though I must say that a diplo win is quite a hopeless bussiness from where you are standing now.

 

[IamJohn]

So are we doing the turns, or what exactly is going on? It's been 4 or 5 days now, we kinda need to get a move on.

 

[Whosit]

Oh, I would be up next. Hmmm . . . . Sorry, it's been a hectic last few days, but I'll try to play a few turns tomorrow. I will probably only be able to play a very short set, but from the sound of it, I'll be making peace and organizing our holdings and whatever we took from the Inca.

 

[IamJohn]

Making peace? We're in peace, that's the problem.

We're not in a rush, I just want to make sure the game didn't get lost in the shuffle.

 

[The Simple Mind]

Whosit, I've only hit enter on the inherited turn and have still to play my turns. I've been waiting for the whole team to chip inwith their thoughts on whether or not we should continue with war mode and go for Sury or change strategy and go for diplo / space win. Still waiting for Pholyz & S.ilver to post their thoughts on how to proceed from here.

To keep the game moving I'll play tonight and hopefully report within the next 8 hours.

 

[Whosit]

Oh. I'm not up just yet then.

OK, then I'll get it later this week. I'm not sure where S.ilver went off to. Unless his computer went haywire again, I'm guessing real life got busy.

Oh, and when I said "make peace" I meant with Hannibal. We'll just have to see what we can do after that.

 

[The Simple Mind]

1706AD (0) - Inherited Turn (IHT)

Change a couple of tile but other than that, it looks good.

Looking at the map we can no longer see Cuzco. Check Toku’s cities in diplo and Cuzco isn’t listed there. Hopefully this is due to our esp points and not Toku capturing it.

1708AD (1)



In between turns HC capitulates to Toku and we are at peace with him. The options are either war with Toku+HC, war with Sury or give peace a chance. Tech wise we are well behind Sury and we know he has half a dozen cavs roaming around, some riflemen and some cannons. Not an easy target. Also, I don’t think we have the troops to take on Toku +HC. So the populus grow their hair, get out guitars and start singing a song. And for once the leaders listen and decide to give peace a chance.

Review our civics and swap out of:



to



Dial up Hannibal but he still wont talk to us.

Speak to Toku and do this deal:



He only has two turns left on Rifling and HC has it, so consider it a fair swap.

Change research to Corps (8). We’ve got two great merchants sitting about. Might as well use one to found a corp if we can.

1710AD (2)

We get a good event:



I take opt 1 as opt 2 would cost us 358 gold will only a 50& chance of getting another1076 beakers. As we are due to come out of our golden age next turn, I think it’s best we keep our gold.

Toku’s army in Cuzco:



I think it’s the right move not gong for him the now.

1712AD (3)

Golden age ends. We are losing 26 gold at 50%.

Antioch finally converts to Buddhism. Only Iconiu, and Bulawayo still heathen. Thessa start building missionaries to rectify this.

Finally Hannibal is willing to talking:



I accept.

He won’t trade us any techs at the moment but he will give us cash for some nice coats:



Again I accept.

1716AD (5)

I can’t remember where we said Oxford was to be built. Looking at the city overview:



Constantinople has the most beakers. It's started here and will take 12 turns.

1720AD (7) - Iconium converts to the true faith at first attempt.

1722AD (8) – Citizens of Bulawayo are embarrassed that they are the only city without Buddhism and convert when our missionary comes a knockin’.

1724AD (9)

We discover:



I select Biology as no one else has it at the moment and is on the way to Medicine/Sushi if we decide to go that route.

I’ll hand the game over here. One turn early but it seems an appropriate time to stop before any beakers are invested in Biology.

Techs:



We are still well behind but if we can Hannibal to open borders and start trading we should hopefully catch up a bit.

Spies – we have two in HC’s Vitcos city. One is at 40%. I’m not sure we’ll be able to steal anything but when we get to 50% we should try.

Diplo:

We are ok:



We have two friendly civs and two annoyed. The diplo victory conditions make interesting reading:



I have a Buddhist missionary outside Gem City to go to Hannibal. You never know we could sneak an AP win as long as we don’t have Mass Media.

There are two great merchants, one in Berlin the other in Gem City.

The save:

 

[Whosit]

Hey, not a bad set, TSM. Though I find the Civic swaps slightly questionable. It looks like we did get some commerce boosts, though I'm not sure that we have enough mature Towns to make US and FS worth it. I'll have to check.

Corporation isn't a terrible choice, as the extra trade routes will probably help us. I'm not sure if we want to found any Corporations or not, as they can become quite expensive. Rather than Biology, perhaps we should press through Steam Power and Assembly line to get Infantry. AP may be an option, but I wouldn't count on it. We will most likely have to win by force of arms, so we should focus on military techs for now.

Anyway, I've become quite busy, both with Civilization commitments and *gasp* real life, so I don't think I'll be playing a set. However, I'll take a look at the save later today and try to give some more detailed and better-thought-out advice. We came out of the Golden Age losing money at 50%. We still have a lot of work to do in order to salvage our economy. I hope to see that Cottages have gone up all over the place. If not . . . I will be sad. Actually, we may want to tech or try trading for Democracy. Emancipation will double cottage growth, and can help us catch up in that regard. If neither Toku nor Sury are teching SP, we may be able to trade it. Otherwise, we should go straight for Democracy ourselves. Anyway, better comments will be forthcoming.

 

[Whosit]

OK, turns out that I had less time than I thought. I'll try to get to the save today, but there's a good chance I won't have time for a couple of days. Just a heads up there.

 

[The Simple Mind]

No worries. It will give the rest of the team a chance to chip in with their thoughts.