Cruel
King
Update: New class of quotes and some leaders!
Actual Quotes for all Civilizations - Help us improve even more!
- Thread starter Cruel
- Start date
Some ideas for Konrad Adenauer.
- FIRST_CONTACT
"My prime principle has always been something that my father has imprinted on me: Fulfill your duty!"
(Losely translated from: "Mein oberstes Gesetz war immer etwas, was mein Vater uns eingeprägt hat: Seine Pflicht erfüllen!" source)
- REFUSE_TO_TALK
"I am convinced that, at this time, negotiations would be barren of results."
("... jetzt darüber zu verhandeln, ist sicher ergebnislos." source)
- NO_PEACE
"Peace without Liberty is no Peace!"
("Friede ohne Freiheit ist kein Friede!" source)
- PEACE
"You have to realise that the [CT_CIV_ADJ] people need peace as much as any other people in the world."
(inspired from: "Und eines Tages - das habe ich auch im Radio gesagt - werden auch die Russen einsehen, daß das russische Volk den Frieden ebenso nötig hat wie jedes andere Volk auf der Erde." source)
- DECLARE WAR
"We will never forget. If it takes us decades, we will never rest until we get our revenge." source
Originally, it was "five or ten or twenty years", but that doesn't fit the time scale of civ.
Attributed to Adenauer in this book (page 293). Note that there is no other confirmation for this quote.
- GREETINGS_ATT_FR (Fraternal)
"Our friendship and solidarity with [CT_CIV_SHORT] is and will remain to be a keystone of our politics."
(derived from: "Unsere Freundschaft und Solidarität mit Frankreich ist und bleibt ein Grundpfeiler der deutschen Politik." source)
- GREETINGS_ATT_FUR (Fury)
- DEMAND_TRIBUTE_POWER_WEAKER
"The day will come when [OUR_CIV_SHORT] can stand on its own feet. But for now, we depend on your mercy."
(inspired from "Wovon lebt Europa? Es lebt von der Gnade der Vereinigten Staaten. Auch das wird nicht immer so bleiben. Es wird eines Tages der Augenblick kommen und kommen müssen, in dem dieses Europa wieder sich selbst helfen kann und auf eigenen Füßen stehen muß." source)
- DEMAND_TRIBUTE_POWER_EQUAL
- DEMAND_TRIBUTE_POWER_STRONGER
"It's better to negotiate from a position of strength than from a position of weakness. Well, it looks like you are the weaker one."
"Man verhandelt immer besser aus der Stärke als aus der Schwäche." source, I made the second sentence up.
Cruel
King
Thanks! 
Cruel
King
They will be part of the package "Revolutions" at a some point in the future.
zwei833
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2011
- Messages
- 1,229
Great! I love the German history and always want to play with the German States.
I would like to get some of the old ones changed (the one taken from mod 'actual quotes'). For example the quote of Saladin is a bit offensive & tries to give a wrong image of him, I would prefer an unbiased one. I'll see & post if I find a good one for him.
Cruel
King
I would like to get some of the old ones changed (the one taken from mod 'actual quotes'). For example the quote of Saladin is a bit offensive & tries to give a wrong image of him, I would prefer an unbiased one. I'll see & post if I find a good one for him.
Still await your suggestions!
pizzapicante27
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2012
- Messages
- 23
Umm, from Mexico, you should probably already have it but, Benito Juarez's most famous quote would be:
"As with individuals as with nations, the respect to foreign right is peace"
"Tanto entre los indiviuos como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz"
(y la concervacion de los dientes)
"As with individuals as with nations, the respect to foreign right is peace"
"Tanto entre los indiviuos como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz"
(y la concervacion de los dientes)
Cruel
King
Yes, this phrase is in our mod. It may appear when you make peace with Benito. If you know more send some to us.
Cruel
King
Suggestions are always welcome. Send yours.
I'd be glad to help out. I'll start out by working on some phrases attributed to Tokugawa, since he seems to be the popular standard leader choice for Japan. (Yoritomo also shouldn't be too hard to find quotes for; in fact, I live not far from his old stomping grounds. The others are relatively modern, and should be quite easy.)
Do you want me to post them here? Start a new thread? PM somebody?
Cruel
King
Yes, you can post here.
Erfeo
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 18, 2010
- Messages
- 58
I might have stumbled on a quote for Johan de Witt (in the SVN version).
"Prospera omnes sibi vindicant, adversa uni imputantur"
Could be formed in something like this:
In times of prosperity all claim the honour for themselves, in times of adversity everyone blames one person. So tell me, who gets the credit in <the player's civ>?
"Prospera omnes sibi vindicant, adversa uni imputantur"
Could be formed in something like this:
In times of prosperity all claim the honour for themselves, in times of adversity everyone blames one person. So tell me, who gets the credit in <the player's civ>?
Cruel
King
Cool phrase, but it seems to me that this is a phrase attributed to Tacitus ...
http://www.executionandstrategy.com/2012/04/are-you-to-blame-your-mirror-moment.html
I'm trying to make sure I don't run into the same troubles with Tokugawa quotes.
I've found a number of sites with collections of quotes that seem appropriate, and I've translated a bunch of them already; but I want to make sure they're really his before submitting them here.
I've found a number of sites with collections of quotes that seem appropriate, and I've translated a bunch of them already; but I want to make sure they're really his before submitting them here.
Cruel
King
Don't be afraid, we'll check out together.
Okay, I've thrown together some quotes for Ieyasu Tokugawa.
I've found some interesting collections of his quotes in sites like this one and this one. Unfortunately most of them don't bother to provide any sources I can check up on. I did come across this one, which has sources from most of them, but I haven't bothered to track them all down to their origins yet.
So even if they are all Tokugawa quotes, they may not be original Tokugawa quotes. For example, we have the following quote, which plays on the fact that the word tenka (like the word "dominion") can refer to both the reign and that which is reigned over:
Basically it means that the ruler takes power not for his own benefit, but for the sake of those he rules. Now, judging by the number of times it shows up on the internet, this seems to be one of Ieyasu's more popular sayings. It would appear, however, that he's actually paraphrasing from the Six Secret Teachings attributed to Jiang Ziya. So you should avoid it if you want only original Ieyasu quotes. (On the other hand, it seems many Japanese leaders of the feudal period were quite fond of quoting or paraphrasing from classical Chinese sources, so nothing could be more realistic. I'll let you worry about how original things should be.)
Before we move on to other new Tokugawa quotes, let's have a look at the existing ones:
AI_DIPLO_FIRST_CONTACT_LEADER_TOKUGAWA_1
This quote is one I've come across in several places, though I'm not convinced it should be phrased in the second person. It seems to have been intended more as an aphorism. (Compare the first couple new quotes below, which seem to be getting at more or less the same thing.) A stricter rendering might go something like this:
Of course, that may sound a bit less intimidating when used as a first-conact quotation. The existing translation strikes me as a reasonable application of the phrase to a specific situation. I'll leave the choice up to you.
However, you might want to reconsider using "Konnichiwa, [CT_NAME]-san" as the greeting. Yes, it is a Japanese expression that many people can recognize. But konnichiwa is a greeting exchanged by people who already know each other; the proper greeting in a first-contact situation is hajimemahorsehockye (though that's probably too modern for Tokugawa's period). And the -san honorific historically implied a degree of familiarity that isn't possible on a first meeting; -sama would be more appropriate.
My impulse would be to simply stick with English. I guess it all depends on how realistic you want your realism to be.
AI_DIPLO_FIRST_CONTACT_LEADER_TOKUGAWA_2
This is another phrase that also seems to have been intended more as an aphorism. It seems to be rendered well enough, but there may be other phrases that are even more suitable as a first-contact quote.
Here are a few more quotes that seem to be getting at the same idea as the first one in the Diplomacy file: namely, that one can learn important lessons from defeat:
Those who are quick to blame others won't learn the lessons to be had from defeat:
That sounds a lot like a Biblical quote, as does this one:
Which is to say, "Do unto others." Nevertheless, I very much doubt that Tokugawa was a closet Christian.
Getting back onto the subject of failure and blame, this last one seems like it would be useful for declaring war or something:
Meanwhile, success has its downsides:
Generally speaking, Tokugawa seems to have been a great proponent of the School of Hard Knocks:
Forbearance and patience were important themes:
And when forbearance is no longer possible, anger should be expressed in no uncertain terms:
(You could turn this into a declaration of war by following it up with: "I hope you have a lightning rod handy!" Though that will only work if you're going for a Tokugawa who likes cute one-liners.)
Even when letting one's anger strike like thunder, one should be careful not to overdo it:
Here he's playing on an adage which states: "Too much is as bad as not enough." I guess he felt that t's easier to add a bit when one has not done enough, then to take something back after having gone too far.
I wonder if the same thing would apply to the amount of thought that goes into a decision...
Still, there are times when thinking gets you nowhere:
One must take one's opponent into account:
But not too much:
When trying to decide who to side with, one should be guided by principle rather than play favorites:
Principle is what distinguishes the few from the mob:
The reign of the Tokugawas was built on a strict social hierarchy, as Ieyasu desired it:
(This is a liberal translation; he's actually talking in terms of five and seven letters.) The same goes for samurai:
But that does not mean that a warrior should be a total yes-man:
Wisdom should be shared for the benefit of all:
There were a bunch more, but these were the shortest and most interesting (and hopefully most useful). These translations are just quick, off-the-cuff renderings to get them posted; I'll be glad to come up with better versions of any you'd like to use.
I've found some interesting collections of his quotes in sites like this one and this one. Unfortunately most of them don't bother to provide any sources I can check up on. I did come across this one, which has sources from most of them, but I haven't bothered to track them all down to their origins yet.
So even if they are all Tokugawa quotes, they may not be original Tokugawa quotes. For example, we have the following quote, which plays on the fact that the word tenka (like the word "dominion") can refer to both the reign and that which is reigned over:
Basically it means that the ruler takes power not for his own benefit, but for the sake of those he rules. Now, judging by the number of times it shows up on the internet, this seems to be one of Ieyasu's more popular sayings. It would appear, however, that he's actually paraphrasing from the Six Secret Teachings attributed to Jiang Ziya. So you should avoid it if you want only original Ieyasu quotes. (On the other hand, it seems many Japanese leaders of the feudal period were quite fond of quoting or paraphrasing from classical Chinese sources, so nothing could be more realistic. I'll let you worry about how original things should be.)
Before we move on to other new Tokugawa quotes, let's have a look at the existing ones:
AI_DIPLO_FIRST_CONTACT_LEADER_TOKUGAWA_1
This quote is one I've come across in several places, though I'm not convinced it should be phrased in the second person. It seems to have been intended more as an aphorism. (Compare the first couple new quotes below, which seem to be getting at more or less the same thing.) A stricter rendering might go something like this:
Of course, that may sound a bit less intimidating when used as a first-conact quotation. The existing translation strikes me as a reasonable application of the phrase to a specific situation. I'll leave the choice up to you.
However, you might want to reconsider using "Konnichiwa, [CT_NAME]-san" as the greeting. Yes, it is a Japanese expression that many people can recognize. But konnichiwa is a greeting exchanged by people who already know each other; the proper greeting in a first-contact situation is hajimemahorsehockye (though that's probably too modern for Tokugawa's period). And the -san honorific historically implied a degree of familiarity that isn't possible on a first meeting; -sama would be more appropriate.
My impulse would be to simply stick with English. I guess it all depends on how realistic you want your realism to be.
AI_DIPLO_FIRST_CONTACT_LEADER_TOKUGAWA_2
This is another phrase that also seems to have been intended more as an aphorism. It seems to be rendered well enough, but there may be other phrases that are even more suitable as a first-contact quote.
Here are a few more quotes that seem to be getting at the same idea as the first one in the Diplomacy file: namely, that one can learn important lessons from defeat:
Those who are quick to blame others won't learn the lessons to be had from defeat:
That sounds a lot like a Biblical quote, as does this one:
Which is to say, "Do unto others." Nevertheless, I very much doubt that Tokugawa was a closet Christian.
Getting back onto the subject of failure and blame, this last one seems like it would be useful for declaring war or something:
Meanwhile, success has its downsides:
Generally speaking, Tokugawa seems to have been a great proponent of the School of Hard Knocks:
Forbearance and patience were important themes:
And when forbearance is no longer possible, anger should be expressed in no uncertain terms:
(You could turn this into a declaration of war by following it up with: "I hope you have a lightning rod handy!" Though that will only work if you're going for a Tokugawa who likes cute one-liners.)
Even when letting one's anger strike like thunder, one should be careful not to overdo it:
Here he's playing on an adage which states: "Too much is as bad as not enough." I guess he felt that t's easier to add a bit when one has not done enough, then to take something back after having gone too far.
I wonder if the same thing would apply to the amount of thought that goes into a decision...
Still, there are times when thinking gets you nowhere:
One must take one's opponent into account:
But not too much:
When trying to decide who to side with, one should be guided by principle rather than play favorites:
道理に於(おい
"Give the victory to him whom reason dictates should triumph."
Principle is what distinguishes the few from the mob:
The reign of the Tokugawas was built on a strict social hierarchy, as Ieyasu desired it:
(This is a liberal translation; he's actually talking in terms of five and seven letters.) The same goes for samurai:
But that does not mean that a warrior should be a total yes-man:
Wisdom should be shared for the benefit of all:
There were a bunch more, but these were the shortest and most interesting (and hopefully most useful). These translations are just quick, off-the-cuff renderings to get them posted; I'll be glad to come up with better versions of any you'd like to use.
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