Additional Civilizations (by DJSHenninger)

[ldvhl]

The list is based off of where major abbeys and such were built during the conversion to Christianity, plus a few others I read of.

 

[DJSHenninger]

Well, York's the obvious choice for the capital, but here's the city list I've come up with in order. Ahem:-

Jorvik (to avoid conflict with York)
Durham
Newcastle
Lindisfarne
Leeds
Bradford
Wakefield
Middlesborough
Jarrow
Harrogate
Scarborough
Morpeth
Redcar
Prudhoe
Alnwick
Bridlington
Skegness
Monkwearmouth
Hexham

Twenty should be enough to be going on with, right? =]

EDIT: I take too long to write these things. Also, Bamburgh's a bit far north for the Kingdom of Northumbria, what with it being in frellin' Scotland. =]

=O Guess I used the wrong map as a reference, or I'm just.. crooked. Err, is it totally out of place or just a little bit? I can't find a good map as a reference (of roughly the same scale). And now I don't know which city list to use, haha!

 

[Scapegrace]

Well, it's only a little bit, but I was admittedly concentrating more on the Deira end (which is basically Yorkshire) rather than it. Also, it transpires I was talking bollocks anyway. There's a school of thought that suggests Bamburgh was the old capital of Bernicia, though I'd suggest maybe calling it Din Guardi and shoving it in around third in the pecking order. I'll adjust the list accordingly.

Jorvik
Durham
Din Guardi (Bryneich capital)
Ebrauc (Deiran capital)
Lindisfarne
Leeds
Bradford
Wakefield
Middlesborough
Jarrow
Pocklington
Harrogate
Scarborough
Morpeth
Redcar
Prudhoe
Alnwick (not Ainwick)
Bridlington
Monkwearmouth
Hexham (Hexham should always be last because the Border Reivers used to use it as a euphemism for hell, as in "Git tae Hexham" and so on.)

Now that we've established I don't know anything about the geography of northeast England (mea culpa, mea maxima culpa), the problem with the other city list is that it appears to be just a list of settlements in Northumberland. My one's a bit more wide-reaching, because Northumbria was actually pretty big as far as Late Antiquity British kingdoms go. That said, you could probably combine elements of both and nobody'd notice/care. =]

 

[ldvhl]

There's a school of thought that suggests Bamburgh was the old capital of Bernicia, though I'd suggest maybe calling it Din Guardi and shoving it in around third in the pecking order.

Wasn't it called Bamburgh during the Kingdom of Northumbria period though? I thought Din Guardi was the name for the place by the people who lived there before Northumbria became a thing.

 

[Maklohi Vai]

Wasn't it called Bamburgh during the Kingdom of Northumbria period though? I thought Din Guardi was the name for the place by the people who lived there before Northumbria became a thing.

This was my impression as well. Also, if you're using this Aethelfrith as your leader, he was first the king of Brenecia, and therefore his capital was Bamburgh, before gaining reign over Deira later on. This joining of the kingdoms created Northumbria.

 

[DJSHenninger]

This was my impression as well. Also, if you're using this Aethelfrith as your leader, he was first the king of Brenecia, and therefore his capital was Bamburgh, before gaining reign over Deira later on. This joining of the kingdoms created Northumbria.

Oh, but I settled with this Aldfrith guy earlier, who, supposedly, 'initiated the Golden Age of Northumbria' and all that. Important art was created during his reign, he "ably restored the shattered fortunes of the kingdom, though within smaller boundaries" etc etc
More importantly, I don't know how old Æthelfrith was because I'm using art of a middle age-old king:

Spoiler :

 

[Maklohi Vai]

Oh, but I settled with this Aldfrith guy earlier, who, supposedly, 'initiated the Golden Age of Northumbria' and all that. Important art was created during his reign, he "ably restored the shattered fortunes of the kingdom, though within smaller boundaries" etc etc
More importantly, I don't know how old Æthelfrith was because I'm using art of a middle age-old king:

Spoiler :

Aldfrith was Æthelfrith's grandson, so I don't think two generations would change the appearance that much. Æthelfrith was also middle aged by the end of his reign.

 

[DJSHenninger]

Allright, so here's a 'status update' for Northumbria:

Spoiler :

Leader: Aldfrith
Trait: Haliwerfolc - Cities with a Military Land Unit garrisoned inside them gain a +33% Production bonus towards Land Units. + ???
Building: High Cross. Amphitheater replacement. +1 Faith for every military building in this City. Trained units gain XP based on the city's Cultural output.
Unit: Thegn. Horseman replacement. The Thegn is not classified as a mounted unit, but as a melee unit. It still has the same promotions a mounted unit would have, except for the City Penalty and it has -1 Movement. It does not require Horses. Additionally, unlike the Horseman, it boosts the Combat Strength of nearby units by 15%.

Okay, some notes:
- Trait: perhaps 33% is a bit too high. 25% would be more balanced, but this depends on the second, still undetermined part of the trait.
- Building: +1 faith per military building may be too low, since the total yield is +3 and is 'spread' over time (barracks, armory, academy). I was thinking of this: +1 faith per military building. Bonus increased to +2 when city is garrisoned by a land unit. This 'synergizes' with the trait. Max XP gained from culture is 15 XP (Thresholds: 5 cult/turn in city = 5 exp; 10 cult/turn = 10; 15 cult/turn = 15). This allows for 3 free promotions upon trained when all military buildings are present. This synergizes with the first part of the building effect.
- So the Thegn has 3 movement, does not require horses, is a melee unit (and therefore not susceptible to pikemen). But what about the promotions? Does it get the same promotions as a horseman? (move after attacking/no def terrain bonus/city penalty) I decided to remove the city penalty so that it may be at least as effective as a normal melee unit. By retaining the no def terrain bonuses, this horseman replacement has its pros and cons. One last thing: the Thegn appears to be holding a spear; this implies effectiveness against mounted units but this is currently not the case. Would this bonus be too much? I'm considering changing the 15% bonus effect to something else while still retaining the 'area' effect similar to a Great Gen.
One last note: The 15% bonus has one flaw: if you move a Thegn next to a unit, the unit does not get the bonus, only if the unit moves to an adjacent tile, it'll get the bonus. Whenever the Thegn moves away, the unit retains the bonus. If the unit moves to a non-adjacent tile, it'll lose it and thus not directly. Couldn't fix this as of now.

Some feedback would be nice. Scapegrace? Maklohi Vai?

 

[Maklohi Vai]

Allright, so here's a 'status update' for Northumbria:

Spoiler :

Leader: Aldfrith
Trait: Haliwerfolc - Cities with a Military Land Unit garrisoned inside them gain a +33% Production bonus towards Land Units. + ???
Building: High Cross. Amphitheater replacement. +1 Faith for every military building in this City. Trained units gain XP based on the city's Cultural output.
Unit: Thegn. Horseman replacement. The Thegn is not classified as a mounted unit, but as a melee unit. It still has the same promotions a mounted unit would have, except for the City Penalty and it has -1 Movement. It does not require Horses. Additionally, unlike the Horseman, it boosts the Combat Strength of nearby units by 15%.

Okay, some notes:
- Trait: perhaps 33% is a bit too high. 25% would be more balanced, but this depends on the second, still undetermined part of the trait.
- Building: +1 faith per military building may be too low, since the total yield is +3 and is 'spread' over time (barracks, armory, academy). I was thinking of this: +1 faith per military building. Bonus increased to +2 when city is garrisoned by a land unit. This 'synergizes' with the trait. Max XP gained from culture is 15 XP (Thresholds: 5 cult/turn in city = 5 exp; 10 cult/turn = 10; 15 cult/turn = 15). This allows for 3 free promotions upon trained when all military buildings are present. This synergizes with the first part of the building effect.
- So the Thegn has 3 movement, does not require horses, is a melee unit (and therefore not susceptible to pikemen). But what about the promotions? Does it get the same promotions as a horseman? (move after attacking/no def terrain bonus/city penalty) I decided to remove the city penalty so that it may be at least as effective as a normal melee unit. By retaining the no def terrain bonuses, this horseman replacement has its pros and cons. One last thing: the Thegn appears to be holding a spear; this implies effectiveness against mounted units but this is currently not the case. Would this bonus be too much? I'm considering changing the 15% bonus effect to something else while still retaining the 'area' effect similar to a Great Gen.
One last note: The 15% bonus has one flaw: if you move a Thegn next to a unit, the unit does not get the bonus, only if the unit moves to an adjacent tile, it'll get the bonus. Whenever the Thegn moves away, the unit retains the bonus. If the unit moves to a non-adjacent tile, it'll lose it and thus not directly. Couldn't fix this as of now.

Some feedback would be nice. Scapegrace? Maklohi Vai?

A few things:

I like that part of the UA. I am still pushing for someone recognition of the intersection of faith and the arts, or of faith and science. +1 faith produced by every science producing building, or +1 faith for every Artist, Musician, or Writer specialist, or +1 faith for every Great Work. Something along those lines. I can spend some extra time thinking about it and come up with something more specific if you like.

I disagree with the High Cross giving faith to military buildings, and I like the XP boost function. The High Cross's intersection with the military was that the epics and stories depicted on the crosses were most often either military or faith based. The best way to depict this and still be close to what you have is to increase the High Cross's faith yield for every military building, rather than what you have now.

The Thegn should be very similar to what you have now; the promotion and ability set up creates a truly unique unit with pros and cons. As an alternative to the nearby unit bonus, I would argue for a large boost when fighting on farms, as that is where Thegns had their lands and where they were culled from. Perhaps +33% strength when fighting on a Farm?

 

[Scapegrace]

My thoughts:

UA: I like that part. Well, I ought to, seeing as I wrote it. However, I think it needs something to tie it to Faith. How about:

Haliwerfolc
Cities with a Military Land Unit garrisoned inside them gain a +25% bonus to Military Land Unit Production. Free Cathedral in the Capital once Chivalry is researched.

UB: I actually like the faith from military buildings. It synergises well with it. Maybe a flat Faith payout every time it trains a unit, increasing with Barracks, Armouries, and MBs?

UU: Thegn's pretty much perfect as-is, though it might behoove you to make it more expensive and a bit stronger, like Big Mak suggested. =]

 

[DJSHenninger]

Thanks both. So im on the right track Regarding the faith bonus, i think what i got and what you're suggesting is quite the same; although i had to use dummy buildings to make it work. The idea actually was that the faith yield from the high cross increases when military buildings are built, it just doesnt show it directly. A direct flat faith payout might do, if i knew how to do that.
I want to make the thegn a bit stronger, but not more expensive XD.. i think the farm boost may be too specific. Im aiming for something more special, not necessarily a strength bonus. Something you wouldnt quite expect. My lua skills are currently rather limited, though
Ok, the second part of the trait will be an intersection of faith and art! Ill have to think of something interesting

 

[Scapegrace]

What I meant was that the High Cross generates a Faith payout equal to the Combat Strength/RCS of the Land Unit trained, with additional Faith if the City has a Barracks, Armoury, &c. Say you train a Warrior in a city with a High Cross. That generates 8 Faith. If you trained a Swordsman in a city with a Barracks, that'd give 14*2=28 Faith. A Longswordsman with an Armoury would give 21*2*2=84 Faith, and a Rifleman with a Military Academy would give 34*2*2*2=272 Faith.

Actually, that might work best as part of the UA. Something to consider, anyway. =]

 

[DJSHenninger]

Here's the current design for Northumbria:

Spoiler :

UA: Haliwerfolc - Purchasing with Faith becomes cheaper the more Culture the Capital generates. Cities with a Military Land Unit garrisoned inside them gain a +25% Production bonus towards Land Units.

UB: High Cross. Replaces the Amphitheater. +1 Faith and +1 Culture for every military building in this City. Trained units gain XP based on the city's Cultural output.

UU: Thegn. Replaces the Horseman. The Thegn is not classified as a mounted unit, but as a melee unit. It does not require Horses. It still has the same promotions a mounted unit would have, except for the City Penalty and it has -1 Movement. This basically means that the Thegn is a melee unit with more mobility (3 Movement Points, may move after attacking), but is more vulnerable because it has no defensive terrain bonuses. Thegns and units entering tiles adjacent to Thegns become stronger the less hp they have. The bonus is lost only if these units enter a tile not adjacent to a Thegn.

So I tried to implement a not-so-basic element of the trait that connects faith and culture. I added culture to the UB's effect to facilitate this connection and it synergizes with the trait. All three aspects have a military feature not exclusively offensive in nature. All three uniques also have similar effects: 'the more of this, the less/more of that' etc.

As for the values:
- UA: 5 culture = -5% Faith cost, 10 culture = -10%, up to 50 Culture. These are thresholds, not examples, so 7 culture = -5% Faith cost
- UB: Barracks, armory and military base is affected (+3 Faith, +3 Culture max.). 5 culture = 5 exp, up to 15 exp. Again, thresholds.
- UU: Thegn and units entering adjacent tiles gain 10% Combat Strength. When a unit has 75 or less Hp, gain extra 10%, 50 hp = another 10% and 25 hp as well, up to a maximum of 40%. However, the unit has to enter another adjacent tile to get the extra bonus, even if it is already adjacent. Even the Thegn has to move once to get the new bonus. This may be confusing, but I can't seem to make it work like a normal Great Gen.

 

[Maklohi Vai]

Here's the current design for Northumbria:

Spoiler :

UA: Haliwerfolc - Purchasing with Faith becomes cheaper the more Culture the Capital generates. Cities with a Military Land Unit garrisoned inside them gain a +25% Production bonus towards Land Units.

UB: High Cross. Replaces the Amphitheater. +1 Faith and +1 Culture for every military building in this City. Trained units gain XP based on the city's Cultural output.

UU: Thegn. Replaces the Horseman. The Thegn is not classified as a mounted unit, but as a melee unit. It does not require Horses. It still has the same promotions a mounted unit would have, except for the City Penalty and it has -1 Movement. This basically means that the Thegn is a melee unit with more mobility (3 Movement Points, may move after attacking), but is more vulnerable because it has no defensive terrain bonuses. Thegns and units entering tiles adjacent to Thegns become stronger the less hp they have. The bonus is lost only if these units enter a tile not adjacent to a Thegn.

So I tried to implement a not-so-basic element of the trait that connects faith and culture. I added culture to the UB's effect to facilitate this connection and it synergizes with the trait. All three aspects have a military feature not exclusively offensive in nature. All three uniques also have similar effects: 'the more of this, the less/more of that' etc.

As for the values:
- UA: 5 culture = -5% Faith cost, 10 culture = -10%, up to 50 Culture. These are thresholds, not examples, so 7 culture = -5% Faith cost
- UB: Barracks, armory and military base is affected (+3 Faith, +3 Culture max.). 5 culture = 5 exp, up to 15 exp. Again, thresholds.
- UU: Thegn and units entering adjacent tiles gain 10% Combat Strength. When a unit has 75 or less Hp, gain extra 10%, 50 hp = another 10% and 25 hp as well, up to a maximum of 40%. However, the unit has to enter another adjacent tile to get the extra bonus, even if it is already adjacent. Even the Thegn has to move once to get the new bonus. This may be confusing, but I can't seem to make it work like a normal Great Gen.

This looks fantastic! For the High Cross, do you mean that the military academy is affected, not the military base? I also like the idea of thresholds in both places that you use them, and it seems like a good compromise has been reached on the Thegn. Any timeline for a beta release? Would you like any more help?

 

[DJSHenninger]

This looks fantastic! For the High Cross, do you mean that the military academy is affected, not the military base? I also like the idea of thresholds in both places that you use them, and it seems like a good compromise has been reached on the Thegn. Any timeline for a beta release? Would you like any more help?

Thanks! yeah i meant the military academy xd i still need all the text parts such as the DOM and civilopedia entries. The dom quote is the most important as well as the diplo greetings and defeats (2 different greetings, 2 defeat lines). If you're willing to, you can do any of those. Also needs balance testing, of course.

 

[Maklohi Vai]

Thanks! yeah i meant the military academy xd i still need all the text parts such as the DOM and civilopedia entries. The dom quote is the most important as well as the diplo greetings and defeats (2 different greetings, 2 defeat lines). If you're willing to, you can do any of those. Also needs balance testing, of course.

It might help to have his flavors (Denounce willingness, warmonger hatred, etc.) before writing the diplo lines so that I could have a sense of his character. If you don't want to divulge those, that's quite alright, I can try writing based solely on the historical figure.

 

[DJSHenninger]

It might help to have his flavors (Denounce willingness, warmonger hatred, etc.) before writing the diplo lines so that I could have a sense of his character. If you don't want to divulge those, that's quite alright, I can try writing based solely on the historical figure.

You can just base it on the historical figure, as the flavors will probably reflect it (still have to adjust the flavors). I will probably make him a bit more aggressive because of the military nature of this civ. Most of my civs only have a couple of first greetings and defeat lines, so it's not anything sophisticated.

 

[Maklohi Vai]

You can just base it on the historical figure, as the flavors will probably reflect it (still have to adjust the flavors). I will probably make him a bit more aggressive because of the military nature of this civ. Most of my civs only have a couple of first greetings and defeat lines, so it's not anything sophisticated.

Sounds good. Here are some drafts; this is my first time writing this sort of thing, so please say what you think. I'm happy to go for a different tone as well, of course.

Initial greetings:
"Halt! My mind and power are superior in these lands. Are you a man of God whom I can trust to enter Northumbria?"
"You have entered a land of God and I am his chief servant. Are you worthy of Northumbria's respect?"

Going to war:
"You challenge God's holiest will. I wish you a swift death in his name."
"Æthelfrith united these lands and I shall sustain them. God will pass down his judgement through my sword."

Defeat:
"Northumbria was founded from ashes and so will be rebuilt from them. In the name of God I pledge it will be so."
"Your armies have fought more valiantly than mine, but Northumbria's people will not be content. In God's name they will respond, and you will be brought to justice."

 

[DJSHenninger]

Looks great What about a cultural greeting and a religious one instead of two religious greetings?

 

[Maklohi Vai]

Looks great What about a cultural greeting and a religious one instead of two religious greetings?

Sure! Here's a cultural pair; you can make your pick of the religious ones and of these if you like them. These were a bit more difficult.

"I have restored the Northumbria of my grandfather's days and ensured its people a safe life. What have you done to earn my respect?"
"We are a people of learning and the arts who bow to no small warlord. What do you have to say for your character?"