Adopting policies between Tradition and Rationalism

[beetle]

Id say that Commerce and Patronage are about even.

I would argue that the most significant difference is that Patronage needs just two picks to be extremely valuable, for the +20 resting point. CS friend status is easy even with Siam or Alex in the game. (Yes, Ally status is much more competitive. But it's not necessary except for DiploV.)

One challenge with Commerce is that you need three picks to get the most valuable one. I think the Commerce opener is stronger than the Patronage opener, so if I think I will just have one pick, my preference is for Commerce nowadays.

But OP is asking about seriously coming back to the second three -- and this is where I think things get tricky. The finisher is great, but the other challenge with Commerce is that a couple picks are weak to the point of being almost useless.

So for OP, I think Patronage works out best -- since every pick is good.

 

[Plumfairy]

Id say that Commerce and Patronage are about even.

Problem is that the higher diff you play, the more AI has money to bribe CS so its hard to keep CS as ally. Gets worse if there as civ like Siam around.

True, but you can sorta get around that by using spies + coups to ally with city-states w/out spending much gold.

Commerce is more predictable. You get what you get. Patronage can be a bit random. Sometimes you get Siam, greeks and mongols, sometimes you get stupid amount of happy faces, more culture you can use and more food then Lake Victoria in every city. Plus Khans and MoVs as a bonus.

True. Patronage does give you one really nice predictable benefit, though: +science. When I go all-in in Patronage, Scholasticism is pretty fantastic. Of course, it requires 3 or 4 policy picks to get, though.

 

[Aenthin]

True. Patronage does give you one really nice predictable benefit, though: +science. When I go all-in in Patronage, Scholasticism is pretty fantastic. Of course, it requires 3 or 4 policy picks to get, though.

Just 3. It requires you to be allied with CSes, however. Still a good investment.

 

[Plumfairy]

Just 3. It requires you to be allied with CSes, however. Still a good investment.

I almost always get Consulates for my second Patronage policy, so I usually need to spend 4 policy picks to get Scholasticism.

But yeah, you're right. Strictly speaking, Scholasticism only requires 3 picks.

 

[shaglio]

I am always struggling, so unless I am playing Poland or aiming for CV, I am never unlocking policies fast enough to come back to that second tree! Except for CV, there is always a stronger pick in my Ideology.

Filling out Patronage seems like it would be essential for diplo VC, and the last few picks in the tree are nice, but how are they really that important?

Interesting. When I go for a Diplo Victory, I usually go Freedom and take Avant Garde and Civil Society. The Tier 3 tenet Treaty Organization is nice, but it's usually not necessary.

I prefer to get the extra Gold from CS trade routes, the extra Happiness from CS Luxuries, and the possibility of more GSs and GWs from the finisher. GSs for obvious reasons and GWs for their Political Treatises to maybe, eventually get to Treaty Organization (if I don't win in the meantime).

 

[beetle]

The Tier 3 tenet Treaty Organization is nice, but it's usually not necessary.

I just learned yesterday that the strongest players go Order for fasted DiploV, but that technique escapes me. I should probably try it your way, but I have never wrapped up a DiploV before having Treaty Organization locking all the CS down. I never seem to have enough gold (except maybe with Venice) to buy my way to victory.

 

[shaglio]

I just learned yesterday that the strongest players go Order for fasted DiploV, but that technique escapes me. I should probably try it your way, but I have never wrapped up a DiploV before having Treaty Organization locking all the CS down. I never seem to have enough gold (except maybe with Venice) to buy my way to victory.

I just want to warn you that I've been palying Prince lately (I can almost always beat King, sometimes I beat Emperor), and IIRC, you play Immortal/Diety. I can't vouch for the effectiveness of my strategy on higher difficulties.