Aftermath of the militia takeover of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters

[Cheetah]

I don't think anyone has posted about this, and if there's anyone here like me, they'd probably want to hear a bit about the aftermath of this event.

These are all charges though, not convictions yet. 25 people were charged in total.

• All of them are accused of using “force, intimidation and threats” to conspire against and impede government officials – a federal felony offense that carries a maximum sentence of six years in prison.
  
• 19 of them are also charged with possessing firearms and dangerous weapons in federal facilities – an offense that could carry up to five years in prison.
  
• 9 of them (the Bundy brothers, Jon Ritzheimer, Ryan Payne, Brian Cavalier, Jason Patrick, Sean Anderson, David Fry and Corey Lequieu) are also charged with using and carrying a firearm in relation to a violent crime – an offense that mandates a minimum sentence of five years.
  
• Kenneth Medenbach, the first man arrested in connection with the standoff in January, is facing an additional charge of stealing government property. He was caught driving a US Fish and Wildlife Service vehicle out of the refuge and into the local town of Burns. Because the truck is worth more than $1,000, that charge could land him 10 years behind bars.
  
• Ryan Bundy and Ritzheimer are also facing the same government theft charge for their use of “cameras and related equipment” owned by the federal government.
  
• Anderson, who was one of the final protesters at the refuge, is accused of “depredation of government property” for his “excavation” of refuge land, including damaging an “archaeological site considered sacred” to the Burns Paiute tribe. He could face 10 years for the additional destruction charge.

Source: the Guardian

They'll get a lot of time behind bars, and not a lot of people really care or noticed. A failed "revolution", if I ever saw one...

 

[useless]

Now watch as they get off or get extremely light sentences, but still made out to be martyrs, rather than the domestic terrorists that they are.

 

[Lexicus]

I pointed out numerous times that the way the government handled this was well-considered, and it contrasts with how the government handled similar incidents involving people of color.

Too bad that one idiot had to go for his gun.

 

[classical_hero]

Yet no mention of the FBI cover up, not surprised.

 

[Commodore]

Now watch as they get off or get extremely light sentences, but still made out to be martyrs, rather than the domestic terrorists that they are.

Unfortunately, you are probably correct. It's a national disgrace that these fools weren't brought up on terrorism charges.

 

[jackelgull]

To be fair, what they did was less inconvenient to the public than the average protest.

Doesn't excuse them, but I think the feds handled this case fairly well, and kudos to them for ending it with minimal violence.

 

[Commodore]

To be fair, what they did was less inconvenient to the public than the average protest.

It's the way they did it though. They formed an armed mob and illegally seized federal land. The average protest doesn't do that.

 

[W|M]

It should

 

[useless]

Unfortunately, you are probably correct. It's a national disgrace that these fools weren't brought up on terrorism charges.

I can guarantee you if they where brown or had "foreign" sounding names more of them would be dead and there'd be a stronger guarantee of them being charged.

 

[Commodore]

It should

Sure, if the goal is to completely delegitimize your protest movement and give the government every excuse they need to crack your skull. Modern societies generally do not take well to violent protests and usually see a violent government response to such protests as completely justified.

 

[Bootstoots]

I pointed out numerous times that the way the government handled this was well-considered, and it contrasts with how the government handled similar incidents involving people of color.

Too bad that one idiot had to go for his gun.

I wonder how true that is. If a group of Black Lives Matter protestors had taken over a minor government building in the middle of nowhere, I suspect the response would have been fairly similar. The key is that it has to be a totally unimportant place in a very rural area where the occupiers can be safely waited out for as long as necessary to get them to surrender, without disrupting anything important. Of course, most black people live in urban areas, except in a few parts of the Deep South, so it's unlikely that they'd take over a little building in a wildlife reserve. But I think the decision on how to respond to occupations is mostly tactical, with relatively little consideration either way for race.

In the past (before Waco and Ruby Ridge) the authorities were much more likely to storm places like this. Looking at the response to, say, the incident at Wounded Knee with the American Indian Movement in 1973 wouldn't be a great predictor of the response today, and of course the counter would be that Federal agents responded aggressively to armed occupations by white people too.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Now watch as they get off or get extremely light sentences, but still made out to be martyrs, rather than the domestic terrorists that they are.

Their movement will judge them martyrs no matter what, but I wouldn't bet on light sentences. These are federal charges, and for better or (usually) worse federal courts are governed by sentencing guidelines. Bear in mind that a judge trying to ignore those guidelines in favor of these clowns and being overturned on appeal was the tipping point for this mess in the first place. These guys might get the low end of the guideline, but they aren't going to get anything below the guideline...and the low end of the guidelines isn't "extremely light."

 

[Farm Boy]

Their movement will judge them martyrs no matter what, but I wouldn't bet on light sentences. These are federal charges, and for better or (usually) worse federal courts are governed by sentencing guidelines. Bear in mind that a judge trying to ignore those guidelines in favor of these clowns and being overturned on appeal was the tipping point for this mess in the first place. These guys might get the low end of the guideline, but they aren't going to get anything below the guideline...and the low end of the guidelines isn't "extremely light."

Indeed. The bootlickers won as per usual Tim. Same drill as usual.

 

[Lexicus]

Bootstoots, as recently as 1985 the government dropped a bomb on the MOVE group after a violent standoff, burning down an entire residential block and killing women and children.

I agree that the racism problems are probably more confined to the local and state authorities than to the Feds.

 

[Birdjaguar]

It's the way they did it though. They formed anarmed mob militia and illegally seized federal land. The average protest doesn't do that.

White guys with guns are a militia and protected by the 2nd amendment; non white guys with guns are a mod.

 

[Bootstoots]

Bootstoots, as recently as 1985 the government dropped a bomb on the MOVE group after a violent standoff, burning down an entire residential block and killing women and children.

I agree that the racism problems are probably more confined to the local and state authorities than to the Feds.

Yeah, dropping bombs during a standoff in an urban area is a terrible idea, and obviously it's not surprising that innocent people died. Of course the Ruby Ridge and Waco incidents which occurred later, also involved excessive force with an aggressive police response that shared some similarities to the MOVE siege.

The more subdued response in this case was largely to avoid repeats of any of these incidents. I don't see any good reason to think that the response on the Federal level would be different if this building were taken by armed Black Lives Matter protesters instead, although as you note there is reason to think that local and state responses might have been more aggressive.

The main issue with racist police killings is that police, mostly local, are much more likely to gun down black people than whites in routine police actions. If anything, I'd expect political actions that get national media coverage to be handled considerably more fairly than everyday cases because of the increased scrutiny.

 

[W|M]

Sure, if the goal is to completely delegitimize your protest movement and give the government every excuse they need to crack your skull. Modern societies generally do not take well to violent protests and usually see a violent government response to such protests as completely justified.

Delegitimize in the eyes of whom? The government doesn't need an excuse to start cracking skulls (or worse), it can just do it. If modern societies didn't take well to violent protests, revolutions wouldn't exist. Only conservatives think that government response to such protests are justified, and though they may think that they're a majority, they're not.

 

[jackelgull]

Delegitimize in the eyes of whom? The government doesn't need an excuse to start cracking skulls (or worse), it can just do it. If modern societies didn't take well to violent protests, revolutions wouldn't exist. Only conservatives think that government response to such protests are justified, and though they may think that they're a majority, they're not.

Dude, that isn't true. Unless your cause already enjoys broad based support, violence never works well. It convinces people that you're cause it just pretty words for tyranny and profiteering.

 

[W|M]

Unless your cause already enjoys broad based support

Successful enough protests get broad based support, which allows violence to work well

 

[Nexlev]

No mention of the current Department of Justice inquiry into the FBI cover-up of the force used against Finnicum?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YlO8verc4k

Shots fired start at 5:20

Note: if you support the assassination of Finnicum and subsequent cover-up, you're standing against President Obama