AI Gold (Again)

Fizpez2

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 27, 2010
Messages
73
Not going to necro my own (old) thread but I am wondering if people are experiencing the same thing as me - we all love it when the AI has enough gold for RA's and such but there are times when it just seems ridiculous how MUCH gold an AI is accumulating per turn.

My current game (King/Random - seems to be Archipelago but there is one mid sized continent see below) I wound up with Caesar and (knowing the AI sucks at this map type) founded as many cities as possible. For the first time EVER I resisted my impulse to let my cities grow - based on resources almost all of my cities were stopped at 4 - I built only Coliseums and Monument in most (maybe a library). My mid game gold was pretty good and I am dominating easily.

My point is Wen -she started on the only real significant land mass - I've already taken two of her cities (including capital) she has no more than 8 cities left - she has a standing army of at least 30 units (infantry mostly, probably 6+ artillery) and Ive seen as many as 10 other ships floating around in terms of number of units her army is at least twice as large. - We are currently at peace and I have recently scouted her entire territory - probably half of all tiles are unimproved. She's maintaining at least 5 CS alliances as well.

Despite NOT having her capital, not improving half of her tiles and not having really anybody left to trade with she is still pulling down 300+ gold per turn and has been doing so (200+ per turn for eons) practically forever. About the only thing she HAS going for her is population size but since most of her cities are on the on the one large
land mass they are working (or not) at least half unimproved tiles.

Given the size of her army relative to mine (unit maint. has me down to about 50 gold/turn) there is NO WAY she should be banking that kind of money.

Does the AI pay unit maint? Do they get a bonus based on population independent of tiles worked? Do then not pay building maintenance?

I have seen poor AI's to be sure, negative cash flow etc, so I'm really confused how she could be making this kind of scratch.
 
Not going to necro my own (old) thread but I am wondering if people are experiencing the same thing as me - we all love it when the AI has enough gold for RA's and such but there are times when it just seems ridiculous how MUCH gold an AI is accumulating per turn.

My current game (King/Random - seems to be Archipelago but there is one mid sized continent see below) I wound up with Caesar and (knowing the AI sucks at this map type) founded as many cities as possible. For the first time EVER I resisted my impulse to let my cities grow - based on resources almost all of my cities were stopped at 4 - I built only Coliseums and Monument in most (maybe a library). My mid game gold was pretty good and I am dominating easily.

My point is Wen -she started on the only real significant land mass - I've already taken two of her cities (including capital) she has no more than 8 cities left - she has a standing army of at least 30 units (infantry mostly, probably 6+ artillery) and Ive seen as many as 10 other ships floating around in terms of number of units her army is at least twice as large. - We are currently at peace and I have recently scouted her entire territory - probably half of all tiles are unimproved. She's maintaining at least 5 CS alliances as well.

Despite NOT having her capital, not improving half of her tiles and not having really anybody left to trade with she is still pulling down 300+ gold per turn and has been doing so (200+ per turn for eons) practically forever. About the only thing she HAS going for her is population size but since most of her cities are on the on the one large
land mass they are working (or not) at least half unimproved tiles.

Given the size of her army relative to mine (unit maint. has me down to about 50 gold/turn) there is NO WAY she should be banking that kind of money.

Does the AI pay unit maint? Do they get a bonus based on population independent of tiles worked? Do then not pay building maintenance?

I have seen poor AI's to be sure, negative cash flow etc, so I'm really confused how she could be making this kind of scratch.

I have noticed that too. AIs almost don't build farms (at least in my games) and I don't understand where their gold is coming from. I'm playing on prince/king, more on prince and yes, I think you're right.
I presume that AI cheats even on prince:eek:. Yes, I know, that souds crazy but, how can they get that much gold with almost no trading posts:confused:??
 
From Handicapinfo.xml:
RED = AI boost

Spoiler :
<Type>HANDICAP_KING</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_HANDICAP_KING</Description>
<Help>TXT_KEY_HANDICAP_KING_HELP</Help>
<StartingLocPercent>50</StartingLocPercent>
<AdvancedStartPointsMod>90</AdvancedStartPointsMod>
<HappinessDefault>9</HappinessDefault>
<NumCitiesUnhappinessMod>100</NumCitiesUnhappinessMod>
<PopulationUnhappinessMod>100</PopulationUnhappinessMod>
<Gold>0</Gold>
<GoldFreeUnits>0</GoldFreeUnits>
<ProductionFreeUnits>5</ProductionFreeUnits>
<ProductionFreeUnitsPopulationPercent>50</ProductionFreeUnitsPopulationPercent>
<ProductionFreeUnitsPerCity>2</ProductionFreeUnitsPerCity>

<RouteCostPercent>100</RouteCostPercent>
<UnitCostPercent>100</UnitCostPercent>
<BuildingCostPercent>100</BuildingCostPercent>
<ResearchPercent>100</ResearchPercent>
<PolicyPercent>100</PolicyPercent>
<ImprovementCostPercent>100</ImprovementCostPercent>
<CityProductionNumOptionsConsidered>2</CityProductionNumOptionsConsidered>
<TechNumOptionsConsidered>2</TechNumOptionsConsidered>
<PolicyNumOptionsConsidered>2</PolicyNumOptionsConsidered>
<!--<InflationPercent>100</InflationPercent>-->
<AttitudeChange>-1</AttitudeChange>
<NoTechTradeModifier>50</NoTechTradeModifier>
<BarbCampGold>25</BarbCampGold>
<BarbSpawnMod>0</BarbSpawnMod>
<BarbarianBonus>25</BarbarianBonus>
<AIBarbarianBonus>60</AIBarbarianBonus>
<EarliestBarbarianReleaseTurn>0</EarliestBarbarianReleaseTurn>
<BarbarianLandTargetRange>5</BarbarianLandTargetRange>
<BarbarianSeaTargetRange>12</BarbarianSeaTargetRange>
<AIStartingDefenseUnits>1</AIStartingDefenseUnits>
<AIDeclareWarProb>100</AIDeclareWarProb>
<AIWorkRateModifier>20</AIWorkRateModifier>
<AIUnhappinessPercent>90</AIUnhappinessPercent>
<AIGrowthPercent>90</AIGrowthPercent>
<AITrainPercent>85</AITrainPercent>
<AIWorldTrainPercent>100</AIWorldTrainPercent>
<AIConstructPercent>85</AIConstructPercent>
<AIWorldConstructPercent>100</AIWorldConstructPercent>
<AICreatePercent>85</AICreatePercent>
<AIWorldCreatePercent>100</AIWorldCreatePercent>
<AIBuildingCostPercent>85</AIBuildingCostPercent>
<AIUnitCostPercent>80</AIUnitCostPercent>
<AIUnitSupplyPercent>30</AIUnitSupplyPercent>

<AIUnitUpgradePercent>50</AIUnitUpgradePercent>
 
From Handicapinfo.xml:
RED = AI boost

Spoiler :
<Type>HANDICAP_KING</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_HANDICAP_KING</Description>
<Help>TXT_KEY_HANDICAP_KING_HELP</Help>
<StartingLocPercent>50</StartingLocPercent>
<AdvancedStartPointsMod>90</AdvancedStartPointsMod>
<HappinessDefault>9</HappinessDefault>
<NumCitiesUnhappinessMod>100</NumCitiesUnhappinessMod>
<PopulationUnhappinessMod>100</PopulationUnhappinessMod>
<Gold>0</Gold>
<GoldFreeUnits>0</GoldFreeUnits>
<ProductionFreeUnits>5</ProductionFreeUnits>
<ProductionFreeUnitsPopulationPercent>50</ProductionFreeUnitsPopulationPercent>
<ProductionFreeUnitsPerCity>2</ProductionFreeUnitsPerCity>

<RouteCostPercent>100</RouteCostPercent>
<UnitCostPercent>100</UnitCostPercent>
<BuildingCostPercent>100</BuildingCostPercent>
<ResearchPercent>100</ResearchPercent>
<PolicyPercent>100</PolicyPercent>
<ImprovementCostPercent>100</ImprovementCostPercent>
<CityProductionNumOptionsConsidered>2</CityProductionNumOptionsConsidered>
<TechNumOptionsConsidered>2</TechNumOptionsConsidered>
<PolicyNumOptionsConsidered>2</PolicyNumOptionsConsidered>
<!--<InflationPercent>100</InflationPercent>-->
<AttitudeChange>-1</AttitudeChange>
<NoTechTradeModifier>50</NoTechTradeModifier>
<BarbCampGold>25</BarbCampGold>
<BarbSpawnMod>0</BarbSpawnMod>
<BarbarianBonus>25</BarbarianBonus>
<AIBarbarianBonus>60</AIBarbarianBonus>
<EarliestBarbarianReleaseTurn>0</EarliestBarbarianReleaseTurn>
<BarbarianLandTargetRange>5</BarbarianLandTargetRange>
<BarbarianSeaTargetRange>12</BarbarianSeaTargetRange>
<AIStartingDefenseUnits>1</AIStartingDefenseUnits>
<AIDeclareWarProb>100</AIDeclareWarProb>
<AIWorkRateModifier>20</AIWorkRateModifier>
<AIUnhappinessPercent>90</AIUnhappinessPercent>
<AIGrowthPercent>90</AIGrowthPercent>
<AITrainPercent>85</AITrainPercent>
<AIWorldTrainPercent>100</AIWorldTrainPercent>
<AIConstructPercent>85</AIConstructPercent>
<AIWorldConstructPercent>100</AIWorldConstructPercent>
<AICreatePercent>85</AICreatePercent>
<AIWorldCreatePercent>100</AIWorldCreatePercent>
<AIBuildingCostPercent>85</AIBuildingCostPercent>
<AIUnitCostPercent>80</AIUnitCostPercent>
<AIUnitSupplyPercent>30</AIUnitSupplyPercent>

<AIUnitUpgradePercent>50</AIUnitUpgradePercent>

Bibor, I've read a lot of your posts and I know you know what you're talking about. Rather than complain:cry: I just really want to understand:confused: - can you help translate some of those?

Assume my CiV was the AI in question - how would these numbers be different?

These are the current numbers from my game and I something like +76 gold/turn - I have 8.5M people, she has 9.0M

Income 509
Cities 355
Trade Routes 153

Costs:

Unit Maint. 165
Building 244
Tile 26

My impression is that there might be a few values in the difficulty script that seem to work well within a fairly broad range - and individually would be fine, but combined tend to push things way out of whack in certain circumstances. The ones based on population seem especially likely to go haywire. As an example, if it was cheap for me to ally CS's, and I got a bonus for gold based on population which gives me a bigger bonus in income and unit maint. costs which allows me to bank more gold, ally more CS's, stay in perpetual GA's//- well if an AI in this position allies a maritime CS early you get this kind of run away gold cascade where units are free, buildings dont cost anything and upgrades are so cheap as to be non-impediments.

My guess is that it could be worse at higher levels but I havent seen any posts about Diety level games with AI's having 50k gold in 1800 because they're either crippling each other, the human has crippled them or the games are decided too early to allow an AI to have 5 cities with 17+ populations and hit the cascade threshold.

Really interested in knowing more...
 
The table means that, if you and the AI are given the exactly same land and the same amount of turns (on King diff.), the AI will:
- have a larger population
- have fewer costs in terms of unit and building upkeep
- have better equipped cities (more marketplaces, banks)
- more golden ages to boost income
...

All resulting in higher GPT for the AI.

Also, some AIs now go for "dIplomatic victory" grand strategy, which means they also focus on gold production (and buying off city-states).
 
I've noticed this too after returning to V for a couple of games. It also seems that one AI emerges midgame with a huge moneybag with a hole in the bottom. :mischief:
 
This happens to me on Prince difficulty. Though the AI wasn't supposed to get bonuses on Prince...
 
This happens to me on Prince difficulty. Thought the AI wasn't supposed to get bonuses on Prince...
 
The table means that, if you and the AI are given the exactly same land and the same amount of turns (on King diff.), the AI will:
- have a larger population
- have fewer costs in terms of unit and building upkeep
- have better equipped cities (more marketplaces, banks)
- more golden ages to boost income
...

All resulting in higher GPT for the AI.

Also, some AIs now go for "dIplomatic victory" grand strategy, which means they also focus on gold production (and buying off city-states).

In a recent game, I got in a bidding war with Alexander for City States an a diplo victory. He outspent me and won the game. I had saved up quite a bit for this strategy and was flabbergasted when he outspent me.
 
I guess my real problem with this is that at King level they should be getting some bonii - I can accept that but the gold seems to be out of line with where they are in terms of cities and territory. With the strength of RA's and the ability to rush buy the AI's ability to generate/keep gold well outside what might be possible makes the game seem cheap when this happens.

I like to think I'm getting pretty good at this game - following the advice in a LOT of threads I play a very solid, should win a lot/most of the time on Emperor type game (again not GREAT but good) - it irks me that an AI which doesnt have as many cities nor as much territory, and what it does have is underdeveloped, is at tech parity or worse and has been at war for the last 2000 years should STILL somehow have 20k gold in 1900 and be able to buy the world.

I've turned off Diplo victory but it makes me feel dirty.
 
There's nothing like going against the Greeks on Immortal with over 20K gold.

yeah, it sucks if they've CS-spammed. best way to deal with that is get most of their cs allies on your side and then dow. if that isn't possible, dow, take them down a few notches, take 10k or so gold from them in the peace treaty, then steal their CS's with the money they gave you ;)

siam used to be worse with CS bonuses, but at least now they don't get bonus food for all maritimes even on friend status.
 
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