AI Suicide - No Improvement in BTS? And AI Ignorance in Terra Maps.

ConanKND

Warlord
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Apr 3, 2007
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Bangkok, Thailand
Yesterday I was playing a Noble Game as Izzy in a Terra map. (Noble's not a challenging level for me, but I played it because I sorely needed a victory, haven't won a Civ game for a long time).

I was doing well, and colonizing the Spanish Main a.k.a the Americas, when suddenly I was DOW'ed on by Gilgamesh, who was a master of 3 city Monty tucked away in another corner of the continent. Gilgamesh and I shared short border, and he had been picking on Lincoln recently, I paid him to make peace once, because I din't want a powerful Gilgamesh with a bloated empire, and passed an AP resolution (Controlling the AP is what all good Izzies should do) to stop the war and return all the cities Lincoln lost to him.

I was worried sick when I saw his stacks, it was 3 stacks, one with 5 units, one with 8 units, and another with about 40 UNITS. But most of them were knights, accompanied by a few mace-pike (2 or 3) and cats and trebs (5-6 total). SO, I rushed to rifling, and used the 2-3 turns he took to arrive at my city to upgrade about 10 units to rifles and cavs, and rushed some units from the border with J Caesar to defend it.

The first turn he arrived was use for pillaging some mature towns around the border, then 2 turns to bombard, while suiciding some knights to give CG3 rifles to me, and then when defences were 0% all hell broke lose.

About 36 units attacked, first cats then trebs, then the few maces and pikes, and the flood of 35 knights or something. I lost 2 units, he lost his whole stack. I attacked back and destroyed his whole force. The 50 units or something he lost made his power rating fall to my level, and I sued for peace, making him pay in cash and convert to my true faith of Christ. (temporarily)

So, a few questions from my story.

1. Why does the AI over emphasize mounted units? Gilly was one, and before that JC, who declared war on me once with HAs and was beaten back easily by a few pikes.) They're not worth the cost and can be easily countered. Why not spend less hammers on maces and maybe having more hope?

2. Why does the AI still suicide its units against hopeless defence? Those 50 units may have been easily used to destroy my economy by pillaging. Instead it wastes a huge amount of hammers and gains a lot of WW and gave a GG. (Do I wish I had the Great Wall). Doesn't the BetterAI prevent this?

3. If Gilly built 5-6 galleons and loaded with knights, he may have easily taken the whole Spanish Main, my American cities, which was really lightly defended and sprawled out across the continent. Why doesn't the AI emphasize the new continent in Terra? So far it's 1800s and the only other AI city in the New World is a French city, compared to my mad REX of 6-7 cities in all. The New World can be a decisive factor in Terra maps.

4. Under which conditions could the declare war on the infidel resolution be passed? Monty has no Christian cities, yet I can't pass a resolution to dogpile him. Is it because he's Gilgamesh's vassal, and he has Christian cities?

Thanks for reading my story, and Hope to see some replies.
 
1. Why does the AI over emphasize mounted units? Gilly was one, and before that JC, who declared war on me once with HAs and was beaten back easily by a few pikes.) They're not worth the cost and can be easily countered. Why not spend less hammers on maces and maybe having more hope?

Every unit has a counter. I don't see how knights are weaker than maceman. When im in this period of game i spam knights as well and not mace or x-bows or something else.....i dont see why AI should do any different.
2. Why does the AI still suicide its units against hopeless defence? Those 50 units may have been easily used to destroy my economy by pillaging. Instead it wastes a huge amount of hammers and gains a lot of WW and gave a GG. (Do I wish I had the Great Wall). Doesn't the BetterAI prevent this?
Prevent what? He was out to conquer you, not pillage you, in fact this is one of the things they improved, since AI used to waste a lot of units just runing around pillaging.
3. If Gilly built 5-6 galleons and loaded with knights, he may have easily taken the whole Spanish Main, my American cities, which was really lightly defended and sprawled out across the continent. Why doesn't the AI emphasize the new continent in Terra? So far it's 1800s and the only other AI city in the New World is a French city, compared to my mad REX of 6-7 cities in all. The New World can be a decisive factor in Terra maps.
You'll have to wait for computers from USS Enterprise till AIs (in general) become this smart and intuitive.
4. Under which conditions could the declare war on the infidel resolution be passed? Monty has no Christian cities, yet I can't pass a resolution to dogpile him. Is it because he's Gilgamesh's vassal, and he has Christian cities?

Yes, you cant declare war on someone else's vassal without declaring war on the Boss state.

Thanks for reading my story, and Hope to see some replies.

You are welcome :)
 
Well, as far as I can tell by my experience, AI can change strategies when it knows what you have. If AI sees your mounted units, it will build spears and pikes. So I guess it has built the standard "big cavalry" offensive stack before seeing your pikes. Differently from a human player, AI does not seem to give up on an attack, including when your relations with it has bettered after the attack was triggered.

And now this raises a new question for the more enlightened members of this board: if AI adapts their force to your force, is it a bad idea parking your offensive stack at the enemy's border?
 
IMO, the reason I think maces are better is that
1. They can get CR promotions.
2. They have no hard counter. (Granted, I may be wrong, Crossbowmen are quite powerful)

But of course, knights have higher base strength and immunity to the longbowmen's dreaded first strikes, so that may balance it out.

About the pillaging, I know, but it should be able to re-evaluate and go for scorched earth, which will be much more effective, forcing me to kill their units 1 by 1, of course, I may be asking too much. Then it means that AI suicidal attacks are not gone, and the human can still hide in the cities and enforce tremendous losses on the Ai. I like that.

As for the Terra issue, maybe they should be coded to emphasize Optics and Astronomy more? Another quick question. The Terra map I generated features a North and South America which are not connected by a land bridge. Good for creating colonies though.

Thanks for the replies. Looking forward for more.
 
My last game Hanibal had a stack of about 70 calvary and before I attacked him I did all I could to put a force that would break that assault anywhere it could reach. So he sent them past my prepared defenses into my rear. Fortunately, Alexander was my vassal and had about 50 curiassers that he used to soften up Hanibal's force enough for me to finish off. His attack wouldn't have worked anyways because I had too much ability to redeploy. Still it was a tough battle. 300 points for a GG in 1 turn.
 
SO, I rushed to rifling, and used the 2-3 turns he took to arrive at my city to upgrade about 10 units to rifles and cavs, and rushed some units from the border with J Caesar to defend it.
The AI can decide on a limited war, or an all out 'death or glory' attack. Until you took Rifling his 'death or glory' may well have paid off. As it was you were able to get the advantage over the AI when it was too late for him to change his mind. Hence the mass slaughter.
 
yeah, I actually like this change too because it makes the AI dangerous. A human player wouldn't lose his/her entire army just to take one of your border cities...they'd know the tradeoff not to be worth it. However, a human player is dangerous for their own reasons. The computer can't out-strategize you so it can be dangerous in the way a crazy person is dangerous. Fearless. Before BTS all I ever noticed the AI do was enter my land and pillage. Sure...that is somewhat effective but I love the fact that now the AI will launch a surprise attack, moving a stack of 100 units across my border 2 spaces away from a good city. Keeps me on my toes.
 
I don't really think you can classify anything in this a suicide... They would be suicidal it they rexed on raging barbarians without building any military units...

I know what you mean though, but is better now.
 
AIs play differently in different games it seems. I just got done with a terra map game, and the AI colonized the new world better than I. I sent a small stack to investigate and it was wiped out quickly by the natives. By the time my next stack went, the AI was already there and had taken most of the southern half of the continent - and a different AI was beginning to work on the northern half.
 
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