Air Marshals: Sleep-deprived, medicated, and suicidal

[Borachio]

Do these operators look like they are sitting around being bored?

Well, no, to be quite frank, they don't.

Mainly because they're standing around looking like if they sat down their brains would ooze out of their ears through boredom. Just take a look at the guys' faces. Those aren't the faces of people who are interested in their work, imo. They're the faces of people who are doing very well-paid work simply for the money. And they're being well-paid because 1) it's a responsible job (in terms of the costs of power plants not running optimally) and 2) it's a very boring job.

Mind you, I could be entirely wrong. And that these people aren't bored even a little bit. But I would be. And I'm willing to bet that these people aren't happy in their work at all.

 

[Colonel]

Yet you continue to do so in so many threads in this forum. This is just the latest example.

Operating a nuclear power plant is far from boring. It is actually just the opposite unless you get the impression from watching The Simpsons.

So you have no source to support these latest accusations? Just your own uncorroborated statements that you and other bored nuclear power plant operators dreamed of something going catastrophically wrong jsut so you and they would no longer be bored performing one of the least boring jobs on the planet? Statements which should have resulted in you being fired on the spot?

Only that isn't what you stated. Now is it?

Yet you are still not willing to retract an obviously untrue statement?

So you also think the word "arrogance" means merely disagreeing with some of your more outlandish statements?

You can continue to pretend that this job is "boring", as you have seen on cartoons on TV. Or you can take the word of those who actually do this job for a living. Those who have spent numerous years studying to know enough just to be able to perform one of the most demanding and critical jobs on the planet. A job where you clearly don't spend hours on end just sitting in a chair being bored out of your mind.

I think it is safe to say those with that sort of attitude would never make it past the years of study in the first place. That the training regimen is specifically designed to weed out those sorts long before they are entrusted with being a nuclear power plant operator.

Odd day when I back up Tims but his thoughts while in Navy as he describes them sound pretty typical for the military and most civilian jobs beside. The video you showed of a plant is set up to show case it for College students, would it sell to them if you showed a bunch of bored people sitting doing effectively nothing. I mean hell I'm an Air Traffic Controller, you really think I haven't wished for an aircraft emergency or something interesting to happen while I'm on shift if were slow?

 

[Quintillus]

Air marshalling seems like it'd be a pretty mind-numbingly boring job. If all goes well, you never actually do anything, and you're always traveling, often away from home. Having worked with people who traveled a lot and actually did things, the travel wore many of them down - it wouldn't surprise me in the least that traveling while not actually doing anything would just as much if not more.

I'd likely suggest things such as reducing the number of flights with marshals (since I doubt it's cost-effective to begin with), ensuring that the soft benefits of the job are good (such as lots of vacation time to make up for the time away from home, and making sure the hours are reflective of the fact that time off in away from home isn't the same as time off at home), and encouraging taking up hobbies that could be pursued on an airplane.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Odd day when I back up Tims but his thoughts while in Navy as he describes them sound pretty typical for the military and most civilian jobs beside. The video you showed of a plant is set up to show case it for College students, would it sell to them if you showed a bunch of bored people sitting doing effectively nothing. I mean hell I'm an Air Traffic Controller, you really think I haven't wished for an aircraft emergency or something interesting to happen while I'm on shift if were slow?

First, Tim didn't mention the Navy. I doubt they even provide chairs for those standing a watch for obvious reasons. Do they even allow 300 lb men on submarines? If not that just leaves a handful of aircraft carriers where he might have had that job.

Second, the two jobs aren't really the same at all. The nuclear power plant on an aircraft carrier or a submarine is much smaller and far less intricate than that of a nuclear power plant. Those who stand watch don't have near the amount of training that a nuclear power plant operator does. Nor do they run the same risks if something goes catastrophically wrong. They are also under the constant supervision of nuclear engineers who are officers.

The same could be said for your own job unless you are responsible for the lives of tens of thousands of people. I seriously doubt civilian air traffic controllers sit around so bored that they hope something exciting might happen. That is also one of the least boring and highly stressful jobs on the planet. They are constantly watched by supervisors who will take them off line if they even appear to be bored for a moment.

 

[Borachio]

Are you saying that on-shore nuclear power plants are so intricate and error prone that having to watch them like a hawk every second of the day in case they melt down is an actual credible scenario? I can see how that might be an "interesting" kind of job.

 

[Colonel]

First, Tim didn't mention the Navy. I doubt they even provide chairs for those standing a watch for obvious reasons.

Second, the two jobs aren't really the same at all. The nuclear power plant on an aircraft carrier or a submarine is much smaller and far less intricate than that of a nuclear power plant. Those who stand watch don't have near the amount of training that a nuclear power plant operator does. Nor do they run the same risks if something goes catastrophically wrong.

The same could be said for your own job unless you are responsible for the lives of tens of thousands of people.

First, they provide us chairs in the military for most jobs other then security. Second, a nuclear reactor is a nuclear reactor, it doesn't change just because you put on a ship. The risks inherent with it are pretty much the same, if not more dangerous on a ship that people can, would, and will shoot at. Third, in a given day in my job yes I very well could have had the lives of tens of thousands of people in my hands. The airliners that the public fly on can and usually are at some point during their flight controlled by Military controllers. And yes we military folk just like the civilian folk get bored, whether we are nuclear reactor techs or air traffic controllers. Its human nature.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

First, Tim didn't mention the Navy. I doubt they even provide chairs for those standing a watch for obvious reasons. Do they even allow 300 lb men on submarines? If not that just leaves a handful of aircraft carriers where he might have had that job.

Second, the two jobs aren't really the same at all. The nuclear power plant on an aircraft carrier or a submarine is much smaller and far less intricate than that of a nuclear power plant. Those who stand watch don't have near the amount of training that a nuclear power plant operator does. Nor do they run the same risks if something goes catastrophically wrong. They are also under the constant supervision of nuclear engineers who are officers.

The same could be said for your own job unless you are responsible for the lives of tens of thousands of people. I seriously doubt civilian air traffic controllers sit around so bored that they hope something exciting might happen. That is also one of the least boring and highly stressful jobs on the planet. They are constantly watched by supervisors who will take them off line if they even appear to be bored for a moment.

Well, since Formy found a video on the internet I suppose it must be pointless to argue with him any further, since he now knows more about nuclear power than I could possibly have learned in eight years of naval service.

Please Formy, tell us more...



By the way the "nuclear engineers who are officers" are actually ordinary military officers (required to have a four year degree in something, though not necessarily engineering), who then go through the naval nuclear power training program where they receive the same training as the enlisted operators that they supervise.

And before you go searching for a video to tell you more about that program Formy, I invite you to just ask me...because two of my eight years in the navy were spent as an INSTRUCTOR in that program. But no doubt you will learn more from an internet video and be able to tell me all about it. I'll wait here.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The nuclear power plant on an aircraft carrier or a submarine is much smaller and far less intricate than that of a nuclear power plant. Those who stand watch don't have near the amount of training that a nuclear power plant operator does. Nor do they run the same risks if something goes catastrophically wrong.

Please Formy, tell us more about these "intricacies"!

A propulsion plant operates far more dynamically than a power generating plant. A power generating plant, for the most part, starts up and runs at a selected power level for a number of months, then shuts down for maintenance. Comparing operation of a propulsion reactor to operation of a power station reactor led to the conclusion that getting out of the navy and working as an operator in civilian nuclear power (which at that time was where pretty much all operations personnel in US plants came from) would have been like retiring from racing and getting a job as a bus driver, so I passed.

As to the maintenance of this 'intricate' device, power station reactors are generally not maintained by operations personnel at all. I know, since when I passed on any consideration of operating power station plants I got recruited by a number of people I knew who worked in maintenance departments. That was more interesting, since maintenance on propulsion reactors is an ongoing process conducted by the same people as operate them, no matter how tired they might be, but it is fun. Again, I opted out because it seemed too dull by comparison. Despite whatever Formy may have learned from videos, a reactor designed to sit at a stable power level for long periods of time doing nothing much, with pretty much unlimited space around it, is hardly as intricate as a machine designed to fit in a very small space, react to dynamic situations, and continue operating in the face of potential battle damage.

 

[brennan]

I was under the impression that it was well known that certain jobs that demand constant alertness paradoxically bore those that do them to stupefaction. Being a security guard or sentry for example.

Or an airline pilot: http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/14/bored-pilot-draws-giant-penis-in-the-sky-5103457/

 

[Zkribbler]

International flight crews are infamous for their taking of uppers and downers in an attempt to counteract the effects of jet lag. I imagine air marshals face the same problem.

Has anyone ever heard of an air marshal intervening in a situation, ever? The hardest job I ever had was a security job where I had to do nothing but watch nothing for six or eight hours. It was mind numbing.

 

[Goodfella]

I was under the impression that it was well known that certain jobs that demand constant alertness paradoxically bore those that do them to stupefaction. Being a security guard or sentry for example.

True, they're probably all mind numbing. But at least pilots do something on each end of their routes and flight attendants serve and interact with people. I think if the TSA decides to do something about the air marshal problem, they should consider pilots and other employees as well.

Or an airline pilot: http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/14/bored-pilot-draws-giant-penis-in-the-sky-5103457/

That's funny. It doesn't sound like it was a commercial pilot though.

 

[Labtec600]

I used to "operate" nuclear reactors for a living, which actually meant sitting in an uncomfortable chair staring at gauges that (if all went well) never moved for six hours at a time, recording what they had to say once an hour on the hour. Reactor operators routinely found ourselves quietly hoping that the thing would just catastrophically FAIL so that we would have something to do. No doubt air marshals have a similar experience, and it isn't healthy at all. Plus, I assume they don't have the opportunity to gather and talk about it, like we did, which would make it a lot worse.

Right. I'm sure they too wish many might die horrible deaths just so they would be more entertained while performing their normally routine jobs.


Link to video.

Once again, the arrogance of you claiming to know more about a job I actually had than I know about it is flat out staggering. Or would be if you had not already demonstrated similar so many times.

Whoa whoa whoa...is this some kind of lovers spat?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Whoa whoa whoa...is this some kind of lovers spat?

Not even a liker. I have a high tolerance for arrogance, but still have limits.

 

[classical_hero]

What a surprise that Form is speaking like an expert and yet again he gets showed up by those who actually know what they are talking about.

 

[Borachio]

The only people who should be air marshals are already zen masters, it seems. Or is that the other way round?

But tell me, pray, just how much marshalling does air take? I've had very little trouble with unruly air. Apart from the occasional typhoon, that is.

Ooh. And farting.

 

[Formaldehyde]

What a surprise that Form is speaking like an expert and yet again he gets showed up by those who actually know what they are talking about.

That is if you actually believe someone who has apparently never even seen a nuclear reactor at a power plant before, much less understands anything about their intricate operation which requires years of study before being promoted to that job.

What he apparently did was stand watch onboard a nuclear powered vessel once or twice, which explains why he put "operate" in quotes:

I used to "operate" nuclear reactors for a living, which actually meant sitting in an uncomfortable chair staring at gauges that (if all went well) never moved for six hours at a time, recording what they had to say once an hour on the hour.

He didn't any more "operate" the reactor than he commanded the ship. That is the province of an officer who has a masters degree in nuclear engineering. It also explains why the "chair" was so "uncomfortable" since he was likely not even allowed to sit while on watch, which seemingly involved nothing more than watching a few gauges and writing down their settings once an hour based on his own statement. No wonder he dreamed about something interesting happening. Many of the jobs in the military are incredibly boring much of the time because they are intentionally set up so that nearly anybody can do them with a minimum of training.

 

[brennan]

Nuclear reactors are quite simple. It's a box and you stick rods into it and take them out again. Bit like kerplunk.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That is if you actually believe someone who has apparently never even seen a nuclear reactor at a power plant before, much less understands anything about their intricate operation which requires years of study before being promoted to that job.

What he apparently did was stand watch onboard a nuclear powered vessel once or twice, which explains why he put "operate" in quotes:

He didn't any more "operate" the reactor than he commanded the ship. That is the province of an officer who has a masters degree in nuclear engineering. It also explains why the "chair" was so "uncomfortable" since he was likely not even allowed to sit while on watch, which seemingly involved nothing more than watching a few gauges and writing down their settings once an hour based on his own statement. No wonder he dreamed about something interesting happening. Many of the jobs in the military are incredibly boring much of the time because they are intentionally set up so that nearly anybody can do them with a minimum of training.

Pick all this up from a "life in the military" video you found on the internet? Your willingness to pretend to expertise is now famous, so begging people to disbelieve me is probably not gonna work.

As to your upping the stakes on EOOW's having to have (now) a MASTER's degree in nuclear engineering...source that please. Earlier in your uninformed ranting it was just any degree in engineering...which was also incorrect...but I'm curious as to why you raised the standard now. Obviously you must have found another video on the subject.

Sitting in the RO chair was an interesting thing, though not comfortable. There is a sense of history when you sit in a seat that has been occupied continuously for the entire life of the ship, which when I was on my ship meant twenty-six years. Reactor Operator at sea, Shutdown Reactor Operator in port (when the Electrical Operator chair next to it is empty as well as the EOOW chair behind it). The only time that seat had ever been unoccupied was a few times in shipyards when they did radiography in the engine room and had to shift the SRO to the control equipment space. Plus once when the engine room was abandoned due to a main steam rupture. It's the only seat where you get that sense, because the SRO is the only in port watchstation that isn't a roving watch.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Nuclear reactors are quite simple. It's a box and you stick rods into it and take them out again. Bit like kerplunk.

More or less. The pressures and temperatures involved make the moving of the rods a bit more complicated than kerplunk, but on some level that's the gist of it.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Nuclear reactors are quite simple. It's a box and you stick rods into it and take them out again. Bit like kerplunk.

Inded. It is so mind-numbingly hilarious someone should create an animated TV show about an incompetent "nuclear reactor operator" who is so "bored" he literally sleeps on the job.