As an aside note: how do you get the strike through lines on a previous post. I tried to earlier - but no luck so just deleted the line in the post.
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Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .
Air & Water Pollution
- Thread starter Hydromancerx
- Start date
As an aside note: how do you get the strike through lines on a previous post. I tried to earlier - but no luck so just deleted the line in the post.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
For Strike thru use "s" in the [ ] and then [/ ] . Just like quote just an s instead.
Can be air and water pollution boosted?
It should reduce all yelds by percentage - flat decrease hurts mainly small cities and largest cities are virtually unscratched.
It doesn't have to be 90% cut to final production/commerce/research/culture/espionage/money output.
Level 1 -> Level 10 cumulative effect for example would cut all yields by 50 - 75 percent, and all food surplus should be wasted + enough linear reduction, so cities shrink lets say every 10 turns on Marathon.
There is food waste parameter, that appears with excess produced food would be affected by pollution autobuildings.
Of course deadliest level 10 would be at 4000 - 5000 and you would have to try hard to reach this level.
High pollution levels would increase crime and lower education too.
If crime, both pollutions and disease are at absolute maximum and education is at absolute minimum unlocking all autobuildings, then city should have only 10% or even 5% of normal yields and would shrink every turn on Marathon.
But that state would require careful planning.... or using Nanotech/Transhuman tech level of weaponized espionage.
As for unhappiness and unhealthiness.... well idk lol
Ground Scrubber should be modified: there is no problem with water pollution at all past Industrial era. Industrial buildings should pollute water by producing sewage.
Now it cleans already clean water and pollutes highly polluted atmosphere.
It should reduce all yelds by percentage - flat decrease hurts mainly small cities and largest cities are virtually unscratched.
It doesn't have to be 90% cut to final production/commerce/research/culture/espionage/money output.
Level 1 -> Level 10 cumulative effect for example would cut all yields by 50 - 75 percent, and all food surplus should be wasted + enough linear reduction, so cities shrink lets say every 10 turns on Marathon.
There is food waste parameter, that appears with excess produced food would be affected by pollution autobuildings.
Of course deadliest level 10 would be at 4000 - 5000 and you would have to try hard to reach this level.
High pollution levels would increase crime and lower education too.
If crime, both pollutions and disease are at absolute maximum and education is at absolute minimum unlocking all autobuildings, then city should have only 10% or even 5% of normal yields and would shrink every turn on Marathon.
But that state would require careful planning.... or using Nanotech/Transhuman tech level of weaponized espionage.
As for unhappiness and unhealthiness.... well idk lol
Ground Scrubber should be modified: there is no problem with water pollution at all past Industrial era. Industrial buildings should pollute water by producing sewage.
Now it cleans already clean water and pollutes highly polluted atmosphere.
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Switching to this thread since i dont want to clutter the other one with pollution stuff.
I spent the evening yesterday making my own spreadsheet for every water pollution buildings (and those that i think should give some) up to the modern age to get some values that i can play around with. Detailed post on that will follow soonish.
After that i wanted to test the actual behavior of water pollution, mainly because i was unsure on how <PropertyPropagatorType>PROPERTYPROPAGATOR_DIFFUSE</PropertyPropagatorType> worked. So i gave my city a high pollution and watched the decay with new pollution set to 0 and what i watched did not at all match my expectation so maybe someone can check if i am missing something:
Given a waterpollution of 1000 in the city, with all surrounding plots having exactly zero, i expected to have 522.5 in the city after 1 turn (5% decay, 5% diffusion per plot in range so another 45% after that (order does not matter even if diffusion gets handled first)) and either 50 or 47.5 in each surrounding plot (here order does matter). What i got were 638 and 32 which is very confusing. Even if i am missing a hidden modifier to diffusion (if there is one please tell me) limitting its effect i would then expect the city to have have either 662 or 676 (depending on the order) so there must be some extra effect at work here as well. Help in understanding this would be awesome
I spent the evening yesterday making my own spreadsheet for every water pollution buildings (and those that i think should give some) up to the modern age to get some values that i can play around with. Detailed post on that will follow soonish.
After that i wanted to test the actual behavior of water pollution, mainly because i was unsure on how <PropertyPropagatorType>PROPERTYPROPAGATOR_DIFFUSE</PropertyPropagatorType> worked. So i gave my city a high pollution and watched the decay with new pollution set to 0 and what i watched did not at all match my expectation so maybe someone can check if i am missing something:
Given a waterpollution of 1000 in the city, with all surrounding plots having exactly zero, i expected to have 522.5 in the city after 1 turn (5% decay, 5% diffusion per plot in range so another 45% after that (order does not matter even if diffusion gets handled first)) and either 50 or 47.5 in each surrounding plot (here order does matter). What i got were 638 and 32 which is very confusing. Even if i am missing a hidden modifier to diffusion (if there is one please tell me) limitting its effect i would then expect the city to have have either 662 or 676 (depending on the order) so there must be some extra effect at work here as well. Help in understanding this would be awesome
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Did you take into consideration any affects of the terrain and terrain features on the dispersion?
Ah, that cleared things up a bit. More tests suggest that while diffusion doesnt seem to care for the target terrain features or types it does change with the type the city is settled on. Also some terrains seem to have a flat -5/turn. Is there some list or documentation for this? Civ4PropertyInfo does not have that and im not sure where i would have to look for the implementation of the diffusion. I looked into the original property thread but i didnt find the info their either.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
You'll probably find some further variables on terrain and feature infos.
AIAndy programmed this system. He's around sometimes. You may be able to get his attention with a PM. He'd be able to answer these questions easier that I can - I have a hard time following his programming.
AIAndy programmed this system. He's around sometimes. You may be able to get his attention with a PM. He'd be able to answer these questions easier that I can - I have a hard time following his programming.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Forests reduce pollution while Flood plains may give.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I'm not hearing the argument against forests reducing water pollution and flood plain increasing it.
Flood plains increasing water pollution would be due to what the water collects during the flood from the land and soil. Forests would be due to the natural filtration effects of the roots and logs and so on. I would suppose.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Why does the sun shine? Cause that is the way the Modders who Built them wanted them. And they had their reasons for doing so. Not every new player has a better idea, though we listen to them anyway.
I wouldn't call myself new.
However you are free to do what you want, I don't have access to the SVN anyway and you don't had to fear anything. I'll probably create a modmod of new properties like I'm doing for android specialists.
Look into the infos for features for those sources (terrain can have some as well but I am not sure if any has).
In regards to the calculation: It is order independent but that means all propagators predict their effect, the effect from all propagators is then added up for each plot and finally all propagators calculate their actual effect as if each plot was at a property level half way between the previous level and the level reached from the predicted effects.
This should explain why the numbers are not quite what you expected.
Iirc the diffusion propagator also diffuses from higher level to lower level only and not vice versa (which is the reason why there are two diffusion propagators for cities in the info).
The source code is in CvPropertyPropagator.cpp .
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