ALC Game 14 Pre-Game Show: Playing as Kublai

[Sisiutil]

I recall that one of my first ever Civ IV games was played as Genghis, and I Keshik-rushed my two neighbours (Julius and Hatshepsut). Yes, I used the Keshiks to capture cities! I just needed more of them. (This was in vanilla without Gers, too, though with 4 XP barracks).

I became a victim of my own success. Even though I razed all but the best cities I captured, my economy still crashed. Then I couldn't expand into the empty areas, and more advanced AIs started showing up and settling there.

Lessons learned: I think the Keshiks can be used for an early rush, and not just for pillaging. But I'll need to keep an eye on the economy. A lot of you are urging a SE, and I'm not opposed, but I rarely run a SE so I'll need guidance and a refresher.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Maybe rush one opponent and pillage others to death(cut off their metals and destroy sources of research) with keshiks. Then restore your economy and expand while destroying enemy cities if needed with cats & elephan.

 

[carl corey]

The only problem I see with that is that he'll end up with no trading partners. That early in the game it's usually better to trade techs than to try to knock everyone else back into the stone age.

 

[Lao Tzu]

It's hard to say without knowledge about his neighbours & starting pos. He may find himself on one continent with monty, alex and toku or on pangea with builders only.

btw, i know, my english badly sucks - it's not my native, but i'll do my best.

 

[carl corey]

It's hard to say without knowledge about his neighbours & starting pos. He may find himself on one continent with monty, alex and toku or on pangea with builders only.

Yeap, we're just waiting for Sisiutil to post the start.

btw, i know, my english badly sucks - it's not my native, but i'll do my best.

It's more than alright. And English is not the native language for many posters here - myself included. Hope you understand us too.

 

[Sisiutil]

Yeap, we're just waiting for Sisiutil to post the start.

Yes, the pre-game thread always reaches a point where we start running in circles because so much depends upon the start. I'll try to post it tonight.

 

[Jet]

Specialist economy, well, at least there may be an opportunity for a phase after expansion where multiple cities run Scientists until around Currency/CoL/Monarchy, then maybe switch to something else after popping each Great Scientist.

 

[Structure]

I played a few starts out as Kublai to try out some of the ideas posted here. I ended up researching HBR early myself with 3 cities. Built barracks and Gurs (snap that whip!). Went after writing alphabet. Started building Kashiks.

On reaching Alph I started trading eveything away. HBR is worth quite a bit at this point. I quickly jumped even or ahead in tech. After trading everything I could I launched my attack with 7 Kashiks a couple archers and two more Kashiks poping the turn after.

I decided to attack Salidin. Probably a mistake, but I was happy with how Kashiks did against fortified protective archers. I was able to take all his cities, eventually. My problem was that I also took heavy losses and WW started to hurt. I also started going broke despite the pillage. This slowed my advance to construction. By the time Salidin had joined the ghost in the machine, I was solidly behind my other neighbor. I decided to consolidate instead of continuing the offensive. This was almost certainly a mistake. I should have hit Ragnar with what I had, pillaged his lands. Even if I couldn't take a single of his cities I'd have slowed him down.

At any rate, by the time I was "ready" to go after Ragnar he was too far ahead. Longbows, muskets, knights.

My two observations: Kashiks do win against archers so an early rush is very viable. But it needs to be fast and furious (a regular shock and awe). Maybe best to burn most cities that are captured. If the first round of warfare goes well, I'd hit the next enemy as soon as catapults came on line (maybe even sooner). To heck with research.
The second thing is that the pyramid to police state gambit might be sweet not only for the added build speed, but also for the WW. Kashiks against fortified archers = losses. It works, but it is bloody.

 

[Mehmed100]

This should be a good game. Kublai has showed up as an opponent in the last three ALC's. It will be a change to play as him. I don't think I've ever played as him in all my time with civ 4.

 

[Kietharr]

Aim to be the first to get nationalism/MT. Early war will get you some nice promotions, and if I remember right MT enables westpoint. Whip out westpoint and stack military instructors in your best production city along with heroic epic for 100% military production and a ton of XPs. Then start churning out calvary, if you head strait for it you can get extremely highly promoted calvalry verses longbows for a few turns. Try and sack as many cities as possible while your calvalry are the only ones in the world. Once riflemen start popping up, focus on chemistry for a force of grenadeers to kill riflemen to compliment your calvalry that take out cannons and grenadeers. Kublai has some of my favorite traits and is one of my favorite leaders, next to Huyana and vanilla washington.

As for the UU, the keshik is abysmally weak compared to how awesome they were IRL as are horse archers, I say forget it in favor of the traditional cat/axe/sword rush for your early war/s.

 

[Sisiutil]

Aim to be the first to get nationalism/MT. Early war will get you some nice promotions, and if I remember right MT enables westpoint. Whip out westpoint and stack military instructors in your best production city along with heroic epic for 100% military production and a ton of XPs. Then start churning out calvary, if you head strait for it you can get extremely highly promoted calvalry verses longbows for a few turns. Try and sack as many cities as possible while your calvalry are the only ones in the world. Once riflemen start popping up, focus on chemistry for a force of grenadeers to kill riflemen to compliment your calvalry that take out cannons and grenadeers. Kublai has some of my favorite traits and is one of my favorite leaders, next to Huyana and vanilla washington.

As for the UU, the keshik is abysmally weak compared to how awesome they were IRL as are horse archers, I say forget it in favor of the traditional cat/axe/sword rush for your early war/s.

I agree that Military Tradition should be a priority. If I manage to snag Liberalism, I will likely choose Nationalism unless there's a pressing need for Astronomy. Having Keshiks promoted to Cavalry in the time frame you indicate would be very useful.

However, I am aiming to make the most of the Keshiks. As others have pointed out, I might as well get Archery early and never build a Warrior, and HBR is excellent tech trading fodder if I get to it before anyone else.

 

[NaZdReG]

other than the early archery suggestion, have you given futurehermit and I's gambit suggestion? early masonry is quite a risk, but the potential payoff of running early police state would possibly result in the crushing defeat of your closest neighbor by a flood of keshiks

NaZ

 

[Sisiutil]

The game thread is now under way HERE.