ALC Game 20: Vikings/Ragnar

[futurehermit]

I did this for a while, but I realized that it isn't a good plan. What you wind up with is a very mediocre production city that can really only build ships. Now, I look to see if I can get eight or more coast squares in a good hybrid city. It makes more sense to me to turn a good coastal city into a great one th an to turn a useless city into an almost useless city.

Without the Maoi statues though that 1-tile island city has only 1 hammer though and basically can't build anything. The city doesn't have to build boats, it can build infrastructure, etc. to contribute to your economy. Getting a full 20 hammers from the wonder is handy. Sure, you can put it in a naval coastal city and it will contribute nicely as well and I have done that, but I still want to maximize the # of water tiles that will be getting the hammer or else it take a lot longer to get the return on the investment.

When I put it in the 1-tile-island cities I also usually like to rush-buy it so it doesn't take a million years to build.

edit: p.s., I'm starting to be convinced by the arguments for settling on top of the stone and building the maoi statues in the capital. However, make sure the GLH is built first as it is a world wonder and you can build the maoi statues at your convenience.

 

[Quornix]

Another point to consider WRT moving west or settling in place is that if he moves Sis will no longer be able to build Three Gorges in his high productivity capital.

The stone is on a river.

A second point to consider is happiness caps; the 4 clams will support a LOT of citizens, but will the happy cap be high enough to actually allow that many citizens until later in the game? I think it would be better to save the clams for other cities, who could use them immediately and to greater effect

On the Stone city, you have 23 food while producing 14 per turn with 6 worked tiles (with the elephants, 6 is the immediate happy cap). Once Representation is in the bag, the happy cap will be 9, allowing for 2 scientists and an engineer. There's still a good bit of spare food, but with Judaism or another happy resource, he can overgrow and whip down to 9 without sacrificing specialists.

 

[TRJS]

Taking bets on 10 pages plus. Two options and we are getting major difference of opinions. How great a game will this be!

 

[TRJS]

Silly computer!

 

[oyzar]

Good luck to sitsuil when he finaly gets on the board.. One way or another a whole host of people are going to be disapointed in him... Why haven't anyone run a sim for the settle in place start like i did for the settle on the stone to compare the time saved?

 

[Nez477]

First time poster, long time lurker here....

I just finished going nuts by reading 19, and am excited about this game

I was just going to pop in and suggest that we eliminate spoilers entirely becuase they are going to really hurt the discussion (as was suggested in the previous game)

I'm sure OP can abstain from reading them, but I know I'm tempted and that would then affect what I may post in the actual thread

Anyway, just a small suggestion

Put me in the settle in the original spot FWIW, I don't like the abundance of coastal tiles for late game considerations as have been discussed in the thread already

 

[Antinegative]

All I know is I wouldn't want to live in Nidaros this time around...

Whats for dinner?

Clams again

 

[RockTheCazbah87]

All I know is I wouldn't want to live in Nidaros this time around...

Whats for dinner?

Clams again

"But mom..."
"Honey, unless you wanna go down to the quarry and dig yourself up some rock cakes..."

 

[Mesousa]

"But mom..."
"Honey, unless you wanna go down to the quarry and dig yourself up some rock cakes..."

Well, there's the elephant steak every Friday ... and maybe they'll get lucky and discover horses.

I'm for settling on the Stone, for reasons already given by others.

 

[Uncle Istvan]

Jeez, I don't check from midnight to 5pm and I miss not only the start but also 6 pages of discussion. Wow.
Anyway, I'm for 1 W. Those clams can be delicous.

 

[Gliese 581]

I actually think the faster start would have been more of a consideration on a continent map, my experience of archipelago is different. Rexing is not as important as you generally are not competing as much for land or else it's easier to block someone off. This means you don't have to rush your expansion as much as on a "normal" map. The production bonus of settling in place will really be significant with stone giving access to early representation and on through the mid-game which I find has a great significance on this kind of map. But all of this discussion feels kind of redundant until we know what's to the east.

 

[MadMonty]

NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! You fools, settle on the stone and research sailing so we can build a galley...then WAR ON THE CLAMS...The clams must DIE DIE DIE...then build spearmen and kill the elephants. The Elephants must DIE DIE DIE....they all must die...kill them ALLLLLLL

 

[o-zoe]

Is this civfanatics or sisfanatics? If Sisiutil starts his own website he may just become the first (semi) pro civ player, haha.
I'll be up here in the nosebleed section, shutting up, watching the game and hope it will be another good one ^_^

 

[TokogawaIsland]

I hope noone else is here. I just want to sit here semi-literate all by myself. I research my techs so why can't you research yours? All this trade me this and trade me that. And why do you want open borders with me? Did you lose something? Nosey people

 

[Gooblah]

WELCOME TO CIV FANATICS, NEZ!!!!!!

Okay, now that the greetings are over, here's my take on this:
Settle in place; a second city site (oh-so-rare in Archipelago Maps) would be well off north; move the Scout there to see if that's an option, SVP.
Also, there's nothing wrong about missing out on resources. We still have Ivory, Stone, and 2 Seafood.

I'd be happy to hear Sisutil's comments on this;
Also, o-zoe....

Spoiler :

I totally agree! Sisutil should have his own site!!

 

[Nez477]

Thanks Gooblah

After a ridiculous amount of time not posting I am now feeling comfortable enough with my game to make some input here and there

 

[Shoot the Moon]

I would send scout NE-SE. I would be looking to settle the capitol farther east in a good cottage spot (it looks like there should be one nearby). The second city would be founded on the stone for a killer GP farm (able to sustain 7 specialists just off the clams). I just don't want to use that spot as the capitol. Some overlap between the capitol and the stone city would be alright, as the stone city would mostly be working the clams.

 

[Validator]

This is really a typical case where you're forced to make a critical decision about where to settle without having all the information you would want. Does anybody else find it weird that even though the "Dawn of Man" screen says your people have wandering around as nomads forever they only have knowledge of a small part of the world?

In this case, regardless of which site is chosen the capital is going to miss out on some resources. You would hope that they will be grabbed by a later city, but you won't really know until you do some more scouting. So you're forced to just roll the dice and hope, or use the settler and scout to check out the area for a few turns (which probably isn't the best option here).

Comparing the quality of the two sites I would say that settling on the stone would be better, because of the quick start and also for the options provided by the extra food. One issue that I don't think anyone has mentioned is that if you settle in place that city site wouldn't have much extra food (unless another food resource is revealled to the SE). The city tile plus the two clams (with Trading Post) plus the FP would provide +9 . The hills and plains tiles that are visible are -8 . So there's not much of a food surplus which could be an issue when it comes to deciding how to develop the land tiles.

Settling on the stone would have enough surplus food to build workshops on the land tiles. But it is going to be lower in hammers for a good while than settling in place. OTOH it will provide a bit more early commerce, and the extra food can be converted into hammers via .

As to build order, it's probably a good idea to build an extra work boat early to do some scouting of nearby islands.

 

[ratrangerm]

I'm leaning toward the camp who says settle on the Stone, but moving the Scout to check some of the other tiles would be a good idea. You won't be able to see too much more than you currently can see, but there are a couple of tiles hidden that would be in the BFC if you settle in place.

So I'd move the scout as you suggested, Sis. If nothing of value is revealed, then settle on top of the Stone. If what is revealed is too good to pass up, then settle in place.

But just my opinion... I don't think a "can't miss" resource is going to be revealed.

 

[Calder]

Settle in place! True the stone nets an immediate +3P to the city, but in this case you'll be losing 8! hammers by settling there (-3P for northern Ivory, -3P Eastern grassland hill, -2P from quarried stone). Immediate techs required are Hunting (you have), Fishing (you have), Agriculture (for floodplains in order to work all production tiles with clams), Mining (Southern Plains Hill, Eastern Grassland Hill), Masonry (Stone). My order would be 1. Agriculture (assume worker first to work both Ivory tiles (2 Commerce each, same as clams) coupled with irrigated flood plains to work city efficiently at size 3). 2. Mining - mines will be supported by just 1 fished clam. 3. Bronze Working, 4. Masonry. Your city at size 7 (assuming you can find another early happy source) will be bringing in +18 hammers, +3 food, +12 commerce.