ALC Game #22 Take 2: Arabs/Saladin

[Bandobras Took]

What kind of hammers does Plains Stone give when Quarried?

And the advantage I'm thinking of in building Stonehenge is not so much the early Great Prophet as using hammers that might have been spent on monuments for Madrassas instead, making a whopping +5 culture in each city when the culture really counts. Well worth it, in my opinion, with the GP as a solid bonus.

 

[aelf]

Stone = Pyramids.

 

[Sisiutil]

Is that a mountain or a hill 2 SW? I think you can see mountains over forests.

Moving is tough.

There might be a special resource 2E or where your settler is.

What's the advantage of having a much earlier great prophet again? Theology instead of philosophy?

A resource that shows up outside the BFC after moving can always be claimed by another city.

In my opinion the best use of an ultra-early Great Prophet is to settle him in the capital. The 5 and 2 are extremely beneficial that early in the game.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

Yeah, you're gonna win this time. Try to get Ankor Wat too. 2 hammers 1 gold 3 beakers? Ankor Wat priests are awesome.

 

[Bandobras Took]

Yeah, you're gonna win this time.

What if his neighbors are Louis with Marble and HC with Stone?

Stone = Pyramids.

I'm waiting to see the map on that one. If there's a multitude of happiness awaiting us, perhaps Representation is not so exciting (admittedly still exciting for the Madrassa's 4 specialists?).

 

[Sefnag]

What kind of hammers does Plains Stone give when Quarried?

My fingers and toes say 4 after being quarried.

 

[Jet]

It looks like there are flood plains to your east.

Personally I might try a gambit like Masonry first, then Stonehenge or more likely the GW. I find that they both drop early, and the Great Wall is usually stronger. But I usually play Immortal, and Stonehenge better complements Saladin and even your Pigs.

If you want Stonehenge, get it with the Stone rather than chopping, because it's faster and saves the forests. In that case you should settle west to hook it up promptly.
1. Warrior 1NE
2. Settler either 1NW, or 1S then 1W or 1NW
3. Settle on turn 2.
Hunting -> AH -> Masonry -> Archery
Worker (road to Stone until AH), Scout and Warrior (slowly, working food tiles and timing it with the Quarry), Stonehenge, Archer, Settler.
I think that's fast enough for Stonehenge, and it's still a pretty conservative start that gives you improved tiles, a busy Worker, and an anti-barb unit.

 

[Loknar]

I'd send the Warrior 1NW, I think you should see if something lies 2N1W of the Settler that justifies settling 1W. Otherwise 1SW seems more attractive. But then again, I also recommended that Ragnar should settle on the stone.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I say this WITHOUT seeing the other missing resource tiles you could have/would miss. Why?

1. Plains stone give 4 hammers, with quarry, 5 with an forge in the city, early on...

2. It'll cost only 1 extra food to work, so stone +farm are neutral.

3. Gives a most important resource in your capital.

4. Free walls around 2 sides of city with rivers. Yes yes, proactive defence, not reactive.

5. Levies, though you get them from initial start.

6. Stonehenge, you said you want it, and its gone early.

7. Pick up one extra grassland tile.

8. It cuts out the 10 pages of discussion of where to move settlers/warrior/explore for first 3 moves.

Serioiusly, stone in capital BFC, to me seems the UBER move, but its instructional as you said. Will follow as allways with interest

 

[aelf]

I'm waiting to see the map on that one. If there's a multitude of happiness awaiting us, perhaps Representation is not so exciting (admittedly still exciting for the Madrassa's 4 specialists?).

Plenty of happiness resources doesn't diminish the benefit of +3 happiness. It just means more citizens, which is excellent for the Madrassa.

With early stone, Pyramids is too big an opportunity to pass up.

 

[JujuLautre]

I say: move the warrior, and then decide where to settle before having the idea to post the warrior-moved screenshot here. Post a screen after if you like, but you'd better play a few turns already

Unless of course real life steps in, in which case you can let this thread for 2 days of discussion before coming to play the round

 

[Shoot the Moon]

Well it looks like there probably won't be any great resources in the fog tiles to the south (spices and deer are the only ones I know of that can be on forested plains). Therefore, my gut tells me that the best place to settle would probably be NW (obviously after moving the warrior). Keeping two more riverside plains by settling W or SW isn't that appealing to me.

 

[Olodune]

I agree with those who say:

"Put the stone in the BFC and go 'mids hunting"

Stonehenge and the Great Wall are fine, but getting them can really slow early growth (similar to getting a religion). I'd make an attempt only after the stone is connected, that way a partial build will at least give plenty of gold.

 

[Bandobras Took]

I have to disagree about slowing early growth. Stonehenge and the Great Wall are cheap compared to the monster that is the Pyramids. Stonehenge gives your cities a border pop without any hammer investment in those cities, which is a huge benefit to growth, while the Great Wall keeps out Barbarians, which means fewer hammers devoted to troops to deal with Barbarians, so that one evens out.

The Pyramids actually slows down early growth more than either of those in order to get a later gain, when you can run specialists, are hitting the happy cap in your five largest cities, etc.

 

[Shoot the Moon]

Stonehenge and the Great Wall are fine, but getting them can really slow early growth (similar to getting a religion). I'd make an attempt only after the stone is connected, that way a partial build will at least give plenty of gold.

Don't quite see where your getting those numbers. With stone, Stonehenge only costs 60 hammers (the cost of two monuments) (normal speed I believe, but still applicable for comparison). GW only costs 75. The mids' cost 250. In terms of slowing early growth, the mids are much worse.

 

[Olodune]

Don't quite see where your getting those numbers. With stone, Stonehenge only costs 60 hammers (the cost of two monuments) (normal speed I believe, but still applicable for comparison). GW only costs 75. The mids' cost 250. In terms of slowing early growth, the mids are much worse.

The big difference is that the 'Mids can wait until stone is hooked up, a settler is built, and a worker or two are finished and connecting food resources. Stonehenge and the Great Wall can fall very early, so planning to get them after the first settler is often too late. It will be a very tough game if Sisiutil tries for an early wonder and fails -- especially Stonehenge without stone. Saladin is not industrious after all. Feel free to disagree too

 

[schwartz]

Pyramids are in the bag if you pursue them. Mid's/Angkor Wat will make for some solid priest specialists. Looks like plains 2S of the settler, so moving SW may net you a bunch of those, = no so good.
I like settling in place and grabbing stone in the second city.

 

[Beatrix202]

I say just settle in place. The stone may save you a few trees but I find the game generally tends to put you in a good place.

 

[Bandobras Took]

If the Stone's in the BFC, it'll not only save us a few trees, so to speak, it'll save us those trees for when they need to be chopped later.

 

[Airefuego]

It looks like there are flood plains to your east.

well spotted

Looks to me like a flood plain to the ENE, a plain to the EE and a forest plain to the ESE.

A flood plain in the capital is tasty... but stone is ultra tasty! ... mmm decisions!

If the Stone's in the BFC, it'll not only save us a few trees, so to speak, it'll save us those trees for when they need to be chopped later.

On that note, settling 1W would permanently lose us that forest for chopping.


aaaaanyway:

I agree with Sis' original suggestion: Warrior 1 NE and settler 1W, then warrior moves 1 NE again, and then we decide where to settle. Only costs us one turn.