ALC Game #24: Hammurabi/Babylon

[v8_mark]

What on earth is WHEOOHRN? Clearly I don't keep up with the abbreviations here...

Definitely Code of Laws next. The Philosophy grab-and-trade sounds like a very good idea too.

We Have Enough On Our Hands Right Now. Meaning the civ in question is about to declare war on somebody, we just don't know who the lucky country is yet.

Agree about the rest - CoL is really the only choice, being Organized.

 

[JujuLautre]

We Have Enough On Our Hands Right Now

or IPTGTWS "I'm Planning To Go To War Soon"

 

[kazapp]

Beaten to it.

 

[oyzar]

We have enough on our hands right now

 

[Phatkarp]

Okay, that's one acronym too far. Wheoohrn. Ha!

 

[Polobo]

Since we have access to ivory and a construction UB are knights n' pikes that much of an improvement over horses and elephants? Guilds doesn't get us a whole lot early on, and it isn't (that I've noticed) great trade-bait. Without stones castles are expensive and, right now, there is quite a bit of flatland between us and Saladin so counterstrikes should be more efficient.

We are going to war with Saladin anyway and Darius will give better trade routes. Once we've cleared the barb city and scout that should boost us even more.

It is quite late now so maybe (CoL - HBR - MC) and let the trimies do the exploring while the gold and silver are bumped by forges and our production is upgraded for an eventual war with Sal. Given the galley-on-galley odds sending out that workboat for a low-risk scouting attempt would not be a bad idea. If it succeeds great, otherwise either we need to galleys now or one trimie later. We'll have whales and one coastal city on each side of the continent so going for optics and the movement bonus would have multiple benefits and is doable since we can delay engineer a while. Plus, compass and optics are generally good for trading purposes.

 

[Polobo]

The advantage to sending galleys is that we can load them up with missionaries. We may also want to consider whipping a missionary as soon as the monastery is done and send it scouting as well, hopefully finding some pagan Byzantine cities to convert.

 

[Terrance888]

Just a little thing I noticed in my games Sis: If you place an attacking unit on say, an enemy's Iron I bet my whiskers (I don't have any) that Iron will usually be cut off in my experiance. Also, if you have enough you can seige it into submission (place a unit on every tile...)

All in all, great game!

 

[CivCorpse]

Since we have access to ivory and a construction UB are knights n' pikes that much of an improvement over horses and elephants? Guilds doesn't get us a whole lot early on, and it isn't (that I've noticed) great trade-bait. Without stones castles are expensive and, right now, there is quite a bit of flatland between us and Saladin so counterstrikes should be more efficient.

We are going to war with Saladin anyway and Darius will give better trade routes. Once we've cleared the barb city and scout that should boost us even more.

It is quite late now so maybe (CoL - HBR - MC) and let the trimies do the exploring while the gold and silver are bumped by forges and our production is upgraded for an eventual war with Sal. Given the galley-on-galley odds sending out that workboat for a low-risk scouting attempt would not be a bad idea. If it succeeds great, otherwise either we need to galleys now or one trimie later. We'll have whales and one coastal city on each side of the continent so going for optics and the movement bonus would have multiple benefits and is doable since we can delay engineer a while. Plus, compass and optics are generally good for trading purposes.

With regard to knights n pikes, I was thinking ahead. Securing a source of Iron is always a good idea. Also given the AI's love for mounted units, Pikes are more effective. Especially since the Agg combat1 bonus means pikes can reciev combat2/formation from aksum right away. Knights also do flanking damage to siege which Ellies do not.

 

[CivCorpse]

I'd be tempted to go for the Silver/Furs city sooner rather than later, simply because more population = more commerce. The problem right now is that we have several quite small-sized cities, which is the worst possible situation for commerce. We either want fewer small cities (not a good idea), or more large cities (a very good idea). Greater happiness = more tiles to work in all cities. Of course we should get Monarchy soon too, but having happiness provided from resources (which don't require an upkeep cost) is always helpful.

But since we need troops to up the power rating we will be building them anyway. I agree the city should be settled, but later when economy is recovered fully.

 

[MrCynical]

What on earth is WHEOOHRN? Clearly I don't keep up with the abbreviations here...

It stands for "We Have Enough On Our Hands Right Now". This is the reason the AI gives for redding out the "declare war on X" option when it is either at war with another civ, or is planning to attack someone. It's a useful way of checking if one of your neighbours is planning to go on the warpath.

 

[Validator]

If you want to keep emphasizing commerce switch to your 3 seafood tiles and build a worker.

A good idea in general, but I'd go for a settler instead of a worker. Zara provided enough workers for now.

Cancel OB with Darius until you've scouted a route to him!

The fact that Sisiutil can't trade resources with Darius means that Darius doesn't have trade routes with Sisiutil either. So the only advantage of cancelling OB is that Saladin won't keep asking for Sisiutil to cancel it. Of course once the barb city is captured that may change.



BTW, one other thing I noticed from the save is that you can barely see the edge of Justinian's border on the east coast, north of the fish. The good thing is that there is a line of peaks which will make it difficult for Justinian to expand to the pigs/fish/gold site, at least by land.

 

[Lord Parkin]

It stands for "We Have Enough On Our Hands Right Now". This is the reason the AI gives for redding out the "declare war on X" option when it is either at war with another civ, or is planning to attack someone. It's a useful way of checking if one of your neighbours is planning to go on the warpath.

Yep... I think you're about the fifth person who's confirmed that now. I shouldn't have posted the question on the bottom of the last page.

And yes, I know about the check for whether an AI is planning for war - it's just the acronym hadn't clicked.

 

[Lord Chambers]

There aren't many rules in Civ4, but one of them is to never work a 1 food, 2 commerce tile.

 

[Komunyst_Indian]

Sisuitil, off topic question but what does your name mean? Sounds like a red indian name, though i have been reading a couple of novels about native americans...

Have you thought about doing ALC's for mods - rise of mankind, rhyes and fall etc ( the ones that dont alter the basic gameplay mechanics)

 

[Sisiutil]

Round 5: 320 BC to 155 BC (11 turns)

Another short round, still looking for close guidance on how to get the economy to recover.

I began by cancelling my Open Borders agreement with Darius.



I wasn't really getting anything from it, and as has been pointed out, when Saladin comes by and asks me to cancel it I'll earn diplomatic demerits with somebody. Best to beat them to the punch.

I also made that trade deal with Saladin that several of you suggested:



I also changed some of the tile assignments in Babylon (although that had some unintended consequences, as you'll see) and swapped the Work Boat out of the queue in favour of a Christian Temple.

On the next turn, I captured the barb city, Minoan:



That went well, I only lost a Warrior to a barb Archer who'd gone out for a walk.

On the other coast, there's a complication for that gold/fish/pig city we'd like to set up:



Yeah, and on a hill, to boot! That could be challenging. In the time it takes me to get a stack over there to raze that city, Saladin may come in there and settle in a less-than-ideal location and claim some of those resources I'd like.

As often happens with a city when I don't intentionally stagnate its growth when it's near its happy cap, Babylon grew one beyond it. I then had to whip away the whiner along with one of his faultless compatriots.



Which I guess wasn't a bad solution, but that's why I'll stagnate a city when I see the need. I'm human and I forget to check each city every single turn.

I finally finished my next tech, the key one that I was going to try to use to dig myself out of my hole:



So first off, I went to see Saladin about Alphabet.



So far, so good--he was willing to make that trade right away. Contrary to what some of you thought, I didn't have to put any research into Alphabet.

I checked in with Darius, but I couldn't trade Alphabet to him yet and other than that all I had to offer him was Meditation which wasn't going to get me anywhere. So I went to see Justinian instead and made the trade some of you suggested I'd be making:



Besides all the good things Mathematics has to offer, acquiring it and Alphabet now meant that the Great Scientist who had appeared a few turns earlier in Babylon would now lightbulb Philosophy.

Which is exactly what I had him do.



Unfortunately, this meant that a religion got founded in that new barb city rather than having Islam spread there.



So much for that idea.

On the next turn, I continued tech trading. First I went to see Darius now that I could offer Alphabet to him.



Turns out I do have a source of iron that is, as the saying goes, so near and yet so far.



That may justify founding a city where Saladin's Chariot is sitting, which can work both the iron and the sheep after a border pop.

I then went to see Justinian to do this catch-up trade:



Nice. I'm still lacking a few techs, but I suspect I'll be able to use Philosophy with other leaders as well. I'm hoping Justinian will start building Angkor Wat and therefore refuse to trade it to anyone.

And that's as far as I went. Here's a look at the map, of which I've explored a little more, especially Arab territory.



I found Justinian, who's off to the northwest, but I still haven't located Ragnar.

Domestic Advisor:



I haven't started on any Settlers yet, but I think I may have to do so soon to claim some of those resources that I'm going to need.

I also haven't changed civics yet:



The reason for my momentary hesitation is the availability of Pacifism. Using it, however, would require me to become the continent's heretic. So should I forgo it for now and just change to Hereditary Rule and Caste System?

Foreign Advisor, Glance:



Heh. My highest rating is with Ragnar, who won't trade techs, but the others will. Ironic.

Current trade deals:



Yeah, getting spices from Justinian was a nice bonus. With the gold/fish/pig city now looking a little more difficult, I'm thinking it might be a good idea to found that fur/silver city down on the coast as several of you suggested. It's a shame there's no food around, but that's often the situation on a tectonics map, I've noticed.

Technologies:



So there are still a few techs I don't have, but I'm hoping I'll eventually be able to pick them up. In the meantime I've chosen to pursue Aesthetics since it's usually good trade bait, but let me know if I should be researching something else. I still have several research points invested in Horseback Riding, for example.

Speaking of which, the power rating:



I am starting to slide here thanks to my focus on civilian builds, so shifting back to a bit of a military stance may be in order.

The save is below; let me know what you think.

 

[Leventis]

No way would I adopt pacifism here -- it's almost an invitation for Saladin to attack you. Islam will spread to you soon enough so keep your fingers crossed till then.

 

[Sisiutil]

Sisuitil, off topic question but what does your name mean? Sounds like a red indian name, though i have been reading a couple of novels about native americans...

Have you thought about doing ALC's for mods - rise of mankind, rhyes and fall etc ( the ones that dont alter the basic gameplay mechanics)

Sisiutl (as it's properly rendered into English spelling) is a Native American term ("red indian" is considered pejorative, by they way, so I'd recommend you refrain from using it). Specifically, for many of the native tribes on the west coast of British Columbia and especially Vancouver Island, Sisiutl is the name of one of the most powerful creatures in their legends, a two-headed sea serpent. You can read more about it HERE. The avatar I use on this board is a wall plaque representing Sisiutl.

I doubt I'll ever play a modded ALC; I have enough on my plate just trying to get through all the leaders--I'm barely half-way through. I have considered playing a special Canadian ALC with the Canada mod in the past, but only the Canadian players (like myself) would probably be interested.

 

[jerVL/kg]

Not sure if trading Philo was a good idea. Justin is likely to spread it around before you get the chance to.

Pity about Buddhism being founded in Minoan -- in hindsight, it would've been better to wait on capturing the city (or at least have an Xtian missionary on standby) which would have greatly increased the chances of founding a new religion in Gondor instead. The good news is, now you can cancel the monument and build workboats instead.

HBR will increase your power score, but unfortunately it won't open up any good trade options. It is probably worth researching, though.

Interesting how neither Darius nor Saladin will trade Polytheism. Both of them must be working on the ToA.

 

[Validator]

I also changed some of the tile assignments in Babylon (although that had some unintended consequences, as you'll see) and swapped the Work Boat out of the queue in favour of a Christian Temple.

...

As often happens with a city when I don't intentionally stagnate its growth when it's near its happy cap, Babylon grew one beyond it. I then had to whip away the whiner along with one of his faultless compatriots.

It would have been a better idea to have whipped the temple for 3 pop the turn after it started. You have more than enough food to regrow the pop quickly, and you could have applied the whip overflow to something else.

Which I guess wasn't a bad solution, but that's why I'll stagnate a city when I see the need. I'm human and I forget to check each city every single turn.

The BUG mod can help with this as it warns you when a city is about to grow into unhappiness, and you can set reminders.

That may justify founding a city where Saladin's Chariot is sitting, which can work both the iron and the sheep after a border pop.

I would still prefer settling on the hill and then settle another city 2S of the sheep. I think you want to make maximum use of the good quality tiles you have available. Unless you're really confident you'll be taking Saladin out soon.

I found Justinian, who's off to the northwest, but I still haven't located Ragnar.

Er... I think you mean northeast. Unless Canada uses a different compass.

Ragnar's borders are just visible at the edge of the explored area north of Medina.

The peak ranges create quite a nice chokepoint situation in the northeast. It looks like Justinian has only 1 path from his area to the rest of the continent. And there's a small border between Ragnar and Saladin.

So it seems that you really have no choice but to make Saladin your next victim. The question is when?

So should I forgo it for now and just change to Hereditary Rule and Caste System?

Will you really get any benefit from CS now? You need to grow some more pop in your cities before you'll be able to work more than 2 scientists in any city, and you won't have any workshops for the foreseeable future. You'll still need slavery to rush buildings in some of your cities that are poor.


BTW, Babylon should be building a couple of workboats for Minoan. As long as you stay in NSR for the next two turns it will be able to work its two fish.