ALC Game #24: Hammurabi/Babylon

[Lord Chambers]

Jungle infested city location early in the game and no hills. Only reason you have this city so early without an army or workers to quickly chop it, is because it is a nice juicy spot and the AI is close by. Don't have the population to whip a library yet and am working my workers to the bone trying to clear jungle and put down cottages. Wonderful happy cap of 4 and working my 4 cottages and here comes the next growth. Whatever shall i do? if I listen to you I will work 1 food zero production zero commerce jungle tiles.

Neg. 1 food tiles are even more against the rules than 1 food 2 commerce tiles.

Or maybe I should run a worker citizen for the whopping one big hammer.

Would you believe that I opened up worldbuilder and started to run a simulation to run a test on this? Then I realized what a bogus situation it is.

1. You settle a city with no sources of hammers, not even a single forest.
2. You settle a city with no sources of food.
3. You have a happy cap at 4.

Even Noble players don't settle crap cities like this. Either the site is juicy or not. If it is, you'll be able to get a library before expanding to an unsustainable size. If it isn't, then you use Avoid Growth and demonstrate that you don't know how to settle cities.

Of course you being the super player that you are...you have teched Monarchy by 3550BC so avoiding growth is never an issue.

Once again you are completely wrong. This is just posturing and rhetoric. I'm really quite bad and just trying to inject energy into these boards.

Also, it takes your size 4 city 76 turns to reach size 4 without a granary (44 with a magic one that starts with the city at population 1). The settler for it needs to be built, also. So you're way past 3550bc by the time you have to use avoid growth. Give me some more time to get Monarchy.

Avoiding growth is always an issue. But using the Avoid Growth button never is, because a real city in a real game of Civ will have a tile that either produces enough food to whip what you need, or one which produces negative food and allows you to stagnate growth for hammers or commerce.

Seriously, stop arguing that "throw food away" is a good button to use. Lord Parkin named the only circumstance that it's sensible to use it, which is so far down the line in the game whether you throw 1-2 food away is irrelevent. Rule stands. Don't throw food away.

 

[civ4legs]

While I don't claim to be an uber player (I have 5 or 6 emporer wins under my belt), I absolutely use the avoid growth button from time to time. There are times when I don't have slavery, but I don't want growth, but when I run my city to have the most hammers/commerce/GPP, I still end up with +1 food.

I would say that the situation is relatively common, actually; I'm sure that I see it at least once a game...

 

[Lord Chambers]

The long war with monty almost sunk the Lincoln game.

If Montezuma had been dealt with earlier, the war would have been shorter. So I agree, lets attack Saladin as soon as possible rather than sit back, don economy slippers, and let him get difficult.

 

[azzaman333]

If Montezuma had been dealt with earlier, the war would have been shorter. So I agree, lets attack Saladin as soon as possible rather than sit back, don economy slippers, and let him get difficult.

A war now will cause striking units, unless Saladin is cashed up and Sis can take cities frequently.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

you can't war now... before the army will be ready, everyone will sport lbows... sally's will also be protective, and when he gets theo, with 2 promotions... so cg3 lbows vs catapults(very slowly, as reaching construction won't be fast) and axes/swords. Aka yuck.

plus construction will have 0 trade value by the time you research it.

 

[kcmarkwell]

I know this is a little past the point to mention this, but seriously Sis, how the heck do you get a 4 food capital, with horses, and oasis, on immortal? i hardly ever have anything even remotely that good and i play a decent amount of immortal...?

 

[Phatkarp]

(cough) Worldbuilder! (cough)

 

[fjordan]

Ridiculous accusations. People who claim the wordbuilder is used everytime there is a nice start probably know the route to the worldbuilder too well for themselves.

I agree that using the avoid growth is a bit early in the game but I use it if I don't want to MM every city and let the governor decide. If you dont't avoid growth the AI will just use your grain tile to grow into 3 unhappy instead of hiring some specialist or work a cottage right away. And yes I like to keep my empire to be nice without red faces. Its part of the fun. Call me a beginner if you want (I play Emperor) but I will play the game as I like it myself.

 

[Polobo]

Aesthetics(you have marble and 2 capitols... really, parth and glib should be there). At aesthetics, part research calendar, part construction, milk aesthetics(calendar, construction, iw, stop); but keep philo...

why get masonry? **** masonry...

We are going to need it anyway so why not have it fill out the tech trade? It is cheap but we are not at the limits yet anyway and, especially by your technology path, will need it soon. It also opens up Monotheism for Organized Religion. Since we have marble masonry is an important tech since it allows us to quarry that marble and actually produce things at a discount.

We are most likely too late for Parthenon at this point, even if we were to go for a peaceful expansion (which I concur is not likely).

 

[CivCorpse]

Masonry is a prerequisite for construction. He also needs it for Maeiou staues in Minoan. And walls are vastly underestimated. Whipping them right before the Ai gets to a city can buy you time to rush units there as the catapults slowly take down the city walls. Normally I would agree that it wasn't a great trade. But that is with a healthy economy that can research it swiftly on it's own.

 

[Sisiutil]

(cough) Worldbuilder! (cough)

Nope, I don't use WB for ALC games. Well, once, in a moment of weakness, but I backtracked and replayed that round. Never before, never since. I don't even sneak peeks, that's why I keep requesting that all spoilers go into a separate thread.

I have, however, regenerated starts until I get one that looks playable. Starting surrounded by tundra or desert is not my idea of fun. My reasoning for this is that the ALC is played to highlight the leader's unique characteristics. If I have to overcompensate for an overly-challenging map, however, I may not get much of a chance to highlight the traits, UU, UB, etc.

 

[Phatkarp]

I was just joking. NOT accusing.

 

[Rubbaduck]

Nope, I don't use WB for ALC games. Well, once, in a moment of weakness, but I backtracked and replayed that round. Never before, never since. I don't even sneak peeks, that's why I keep requesting that all spoilers go into a separate thread.

I have, however, regenerated starts until I get one that looks playable. Starting surrounded by tundra or desert is not my idea of fun. My reasoning for this is that the ALC is played to highlight the leader's unique characteristics. If I have to overcompensate for an overly-challenging map, however, I may not get much of a chance to highlight the traits, UU, UB, etc.

We all know about the honorability of the ALC, no worries.
Also, regening is very understandable, looking at the purpose of the whole series, we don't want to see monty played in a food poor, forest/jungleless religious lovefest.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

We are going to need it anyway so why not have it fill out the tech trade?

because you're already over ragnar's 5 techs... for somethin' that takes 2 turns if your research is crap.

really, it's immortal; you play noble in a way, monarch in another, immortal in a different way and diety way different... You trade masonry if you have mansa and another 15 techer, but not in a tight environment like this one.

We are most likely too late for Parthenon at this point, even if we were to go for a peaceful expansion (which I concur is not likely).

it's 4 chops and a few turns in whatever was zara's capitol. And parth is not built fast; and there's no one to attack sis anyway. Ragnar won't since he's too far and sally won't since graphs are close(power graphs); plus sally ain't a warmonger.

and anyway, bowmen are hard to break; they require maces and crap, something the world is far from...

 

[Quotey]

Mary mother of Jesus Christ almighty, Lord Chambers could you cool down?

 

[Polobo]

because you're already over ragnar's 5 techs... for somethin' that takes 2 turns if your research is crap.

I don't imagine Ragnar was ever a realistic candidate for being a tech buddy whether we traded for masonry or waited for something else...and given the immediate benefit of masonry (we may be able to trade for construction sooner) I don't really have a problem with it. As mentioned before there are a number of civs we haven't met yet that are more advanced than us anyway.

I actually wouldn't mind burning a few forests and hammers on the Parthenon once we get Polytheism since in the worst case we'll get some gold (just make sure we get marble hooked up before we start). Even though we'll have 2 GP farms for much of the game (at least while we aren't at war) I still don't believe that the Parthenon is the best use of our resources (and traits) - although with Sis's tech brokering ability some extra bulbs would be nice.

 

[jason77024]

He also needs [Masonry] for Maeiou staues in Minoan.

Shouldn't that be Maeiou(y)?

 

[Crowqueen]

@jason - Moai. M-O-A-I.

 

[vanatteveldt]

whoosh!

 

[CivCorpse]

whoosh!

LMAO my thoughts exactly