An Unofficial Science Competition -- paying homage to Mesix

[DGDobrev]

I believe that is a common strategy. I usually get the two nearest capitals as my 3rd and 4th cities (if they're good enough) no matter what civ I play and what victory condition(s) - except if I'm doing OCC. I just don't understand people allowing two close neighbors to grow and expand. ("close" is the operative word)

I completely agree. The only problem is that in the end, going to war only makes you lose turns. In the T280 Babylon win I ended up leaving Denmark alone and conquering almost all of Rome - but that happened in the late game. I didn't even wanted to go to war with Caesar, but he was pestering me so much, that I simply gave up. I forgave him for stealing like 7-8 times, suffered his insults of my nation being so puny, etc. - and nothing. So I got angry and denounced him, which didn't stop him from stealing - even though China, the Inca, the Iroquois, the Maya and in the end, Denmark were all denouncing him regularly. So after a long swearing session, I cranked out a bunch of Rocket Artillery units and went on a rampage. I didn't want that - I am a peaceful guy, really

 

[Mesix]

I am a peaceful guy too. I don't think of myself as the conquer of Rome and Copenhagen. I see myself as their liberator. Now they can contribute to the greater good!

 

[DGDobrev]

Now that gave me a really nice laugh Thanks, Mesix. That's the spirit

 

[Mesix]

Here is how my initial (exploration) play through looks at turn 150.

I am researching 154 per turn. I founded 4 cities and captured 2. I built the Hanging Gardens and the Hagia Sophia in Babylon. I built the Great Mosque and Petra in Copenhagen (after annexing it).

Spoiler :

Here is what my cities are up to.

Spoiler :

Here is what my tech tree looks like.

Spoiler :

I was able to capture the 5th (out of 5, so the last) religion with the free GP from Hagia Sophia. I enhanced it a few turns later with a GP generated with 300 .

Spoiler :

My social policies.

Spoiler :

Due to my somewhat unconventional early expansion (Bowman rush), my technology pace was a bit behind the power curve initially. For a couple of benchmarks I entered the Renaissance (with Acoustics) on turn 119 and opened Rationalism 2 turns later on turn 121. Prior to this, I went straight through Tradition to grow a tall empire. I currently only have a University in Babylon, but I will have Universities in 2 more cities very soon so the science engine can be under way. My religion will give me +1 from Shrines and Temples to help my cities grow taller. My religion will also allow me to build Cathedrals for some extra and and also generating extra for a snowball effect to purchase some late game great people. Speaking of great people, I got the free GS with writing, and then generated a GS and GA on the same turn (turn 122 IIRC) for 100 points. I am 3 turns away from another GS (Academy) in Babylon.

 

[Tabarnak]

Ok folks here is the official ''way'' that i will play all games.

Points to counsider :

-Stability
-Doability
-Strong opening

Goal is to start with 2 scouts to catch ruins in a proper pattern to always get same elements for 3 games(Stability)

Rush CBs with 3 cities using Tradition to easily capture Denmark ASAP(Doability). This will eliminate the potential DoW from this guy(Stability)

Then i finish NC and put 2 more cities and then grow until the end from that point(strong opening)

Here is what the first 90 turns will look like for all games, starting with Babylonians :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Borsippa is 1 tile SW of where it should be because too much barbs were wandering around and i didn't want to lose my settler.

 

[OmniPotent42]

Here is how my initial (exploration) play through looks at turn 150.

I am researching 154 per turn. I founded 4 cities and captured 2. I built the Hanging Gardens and the Hagia Sophia in Babylon. I built the Great Mosque and Petra in Copenhagen (after annexing it).

Spoiler :

Here is what my cities are up to.

Spoiler :

Here is what my tech tree looks like.

Spoiler :

I was able to capture the 5th (out of 5, so the last) religion with the free GP from Hagia Sophia. I enhanced it a few turns later with a GP generated with 300 .

Spoiler :

My social policies.

Spoiler :

Due to my somewhat unconventional early expansion (Bowman rush), my technology pace was a bit behind the power curve initially. For a couple of benchmarks I entered the Renaissance (with Acoustics) on turn 119 and opened Rationalism 2 turns later on turn 121. Prior to this, I went straight through Tradition to grow a tall empire. I currently only have a University in Babylon, but I will have Universities in 2 more cities very soon so the science engine can be under way. My religion will give me +1 from Shrines and Temples to help my cities grow taller. My religion will also allow me to build Cathedrals for some extra and and also generating extra for a snowball effect to purchase some late game great people. Speaking of great people, I got the free GS with writing, and then generated a GS and GA on the same turn (turn 122 IIRC) for 100 points. I am 3 turns away from another GS (Academy) in Babylon.

Looks like happiness will be an issue for you, though.

 

[budweiser]

I'm asking Hammer Rabbi in PM to add the Americans. We need a non-science civ as a base.

 

[Mesix]

Looks like happiness will be an issue for you, though.

I don't think it will be too big of a problem. Once my religion spreads to my cities they will get +1 from Goddess of Love and +1 from Cathedrals which should be up very fist with my rate. On top of that, none of my cities have built a Colosseum yet so that will be additional when I need it most.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

any reason why america is your choice? people find it to be kind of meh and im not sure how many playthroughs people are willing to endure. im not sure i see a good reason for another civ start. it might lead to everyone wanting their fav civ on this map and it will be too tedious for me.

 

[budweiser]

any reason why america is your choice? people find it to be kind of meh and im not sure how many playthroughs people are willing to endure. im not sure i see a good reason for another civ start. it might lead to everyone wanting their fav civ on this map and it will be too tedious for me.

You kinda hit on the reason right there. We might do all these test with civs that we think are good only to find that a meh civ can attain the same finish time. A good science expirement would have some kind of control like that.

But, I certainly understand if you want to keep it to 3.

 

[flairin]

well the Americans will have an edge in their +1 sight early on, espec. because there are swarms of barbs around and u could easily lose them

 

[Mesix]

I've started a Maya game. Using an early REX strategy and a Pyramid in every city, I reached the Renaissance by turn 118. I'll post some pics and a synopsis after I reach turn 150.

I will say this...Maya is a beast!

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

at budweiser: this was largely just to help settle or resolve the science discussion specific to these 3 from Mesix's thread. many of the elite .001% (as tabarnak has said) probably wont see any measurable benefit because they play so far above the bar but the rest of us still view the game in terms of bonuses and advantages. when people have had enough time with the 3 civs from mesix then i'll add some others, maybe next week, america included.

im watching tommynt's (one of those .001%) t180 maya diplo game from the gotm 42 scenario. using his tactics pretty much anyone should be able to get under t200, albeit those tactics arent bug exploitation but they are debate-able. plus his game knowledge is really just better than most, and by a large margin. when you know you arent going to get beat on x-wonder on certain difficulties or know how to really maximize trades beyond knowing that 240g is max for a lux is really where a lot of efficiency and superiority are displayed. ive watched the first 3, and im guessing only 2 or 3 more vids are left to finish it out. his 4th one is the most recent one up.

 

[budweiser]

t250 Korea

Spoiler :

722 BPT
Still 4 cities
Full Tradition, Right side Commerce, Freedom Opener, Rationalism and Secularism
RAs a re sparce and am wishing I had 2 more cities, but happiness is also scarce.

Rome is a super power and is rivalling me in tech. I am kinda cash poor for weapons upgrade.

Ballistics in 4, 3 techs to Apollo. Its going to be real slow self researching all that.

t250 Maya

Spoiler :

At least I am improving over my Koea Game.

915BPT
7 Cities
Rockety in 4 turns.
Full Libery, 2 Commerce, Left side Rationalism.

Settled in place. I feel the missing border pops from Tradition hurt me bad this time.

Update.

 

[flairin]

Having played peacefully with each of the three once (four cities) I will now play each more offensively. So far the Maya have the best result thanks to the capital growing to above 30. I credit this to Rome being more peaceful, i.e. not destroying that Mercantile CS I was allied too, as well as building ToA and having high culture output.

I was seeming to push some limits a bit with Korea early on, having reached Theology on T52 and having an insane amount of BPT early as well but stopped growing!! I also forgot to found a religion for the first time (no prophets for me after Pantheon)!! The extra happiness from not having a religion was felt...

for Korea:
t115 right at 200 bpt
t140 above 300 bpt
t164 -- 419 bpt
t184 -- 508 bpt
t298 -- 1105 bpt. stopped cause will no way will beat Mayas t324 science victory. My military consists of a paltry 3 machine guns and a lancer. I just completed a space part and will complete nanotech in 20 turns. It is taking 8 turns to complete a space part compared to 3 at this time with the Maya

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

liberating Tyre can be handy. when Tyre is anything but military I like to do that. if it has a nice UU ill consider it.

 

[PhilBowles]

liberating Tyre can be handy. when Tyre is anything but military I like to do that. if it has a nice UU ill consider it.

Still haven't loaded the map, but Tyre is a mercantile CS in G&K, it's no longer military (each CS name is always the same type of CS), unless there's some oddity in this map design which randomises the CS type associated with a name.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

i thought id seen them randomized for the type but maybe that was in vanilla. is there a fixed chart for each of the CSs somewhere?

 

[Grendeldef]

Started my test with Mayans just to see what's it all about for the sake of experiment and weird game it turned out to be. Few moments ago I was cut off by Win updates & the following reboot so I'm roughly @T200 with ~670 bpt. 5 own cities & 4 puppets incl. Copenhagen & Rome. Happiness is +29, my religion is dominant and my army of 5 Gatlings, knight, 2 lancers & a GWI is somehow superior - this seems ridiculous since I lost focus on T20.
I started as usual with Tradition etc. but I was surprised to see AIs doing next to nothing - barbs had by far the largest army, a genuine nuisance. Obviously after GL & HS nobody really liked me so I expected DoW but it took Harald almost 100 turns to start - a very bad but welcomed move since I fell asleep earlier due to lack of activity. However, few spears, 2 catas & 2 archers is hardly a force to be feared. Wiped the Danes & DoWed Rome just to avoid boredom. After I killed them off, too I resumed my exploration which turned out profitable as @T150 I only knew 3 CSs. My only scout died young and the general view of the surroundings somehow gave me the idea that most of the CSs were taken out of the game on purpose. Had I known that I'd have been more aggressive.
Especially policywise the lack of CSs from the start has been slowing things down quite a bit. Atm it's ~120 cpt with 4 allies tradition filled & 4 on rationalism. With proper scouting it should also be 2 or 3 in patronage.
So far I've managed one RA with Hiawatha and I'm not likely to get any more. Also I screwed up the long count GPs due to just building wonders & hitting next.
Hopefully I'll finish the game tomorrow - few ss coming anyway.

G

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

My only scout died young and the general view of the surroundings somehow gave me the idea that most of the CSs were taken out of the game on purpose. Had I known that I'd have been more aggressive.
Especially policywise the lack of CSs from the start has been slowing things down quite a bit. Atm it's ~120 cpt with 4 allies tradition filled & 4 on rationalism. With proper scouting it should also be 2 or 3 in patronage.
So far I've managed one RA with Hiawatha and I'm not likely to get any more. Also I screwed up the long count GPs due to just building wonders & hitting next.
Hopefully I'll finish the game tomorrow - few ss coming anyway.

G

these are designed to be replayable so that each of the actual playthroughs assumes the same game knowledge. and there are indeed 16 CSs, it's just that you start in a corner of the map rather than in the middle.