Ancient Illyria and Ethnic Albania as Playable Civilizations!

[Prometheus_666]

I wonder why I see both ancient and modern Greek cities in this Albanian mod.

Hmmmm.

As for the Turk, I've never heard of a "moutain Greek", especially considering Thrace is mostly plains and light hills (idiot), but I have heard of the "mountain Turk" label.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=mo...Search&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8

I think someone else said it best, Albania today in the 21st century is barely civilized, nevermind actually wishing to play it as a civilization.

 

[deo]

I wonder why I see both ancient and modern Greek cities in this Albanian mod.

Wich cities do you mean?

I think someone else said it best, Albania today in the 21st century is barely civilized

Why do you think so?

 

[Tunch Khan]

As for the Turk, I've never heard of a "moutain Greek", especially considering Thrace is mostly plains and light hills (idiot), but I have heard of the "mountain Turk" label.

I will leave it to others to judge your opinions here, as you are the one who is talking about a region which clearly you have no idea of. Ever heard of the Rhodope Mountain ranges? Other than that, your comment disgusts me; but hey, it's just me.

 

[Tunch Khan]

Calm down please. Greeks who live in Turkey are Turkish citizens and Turks who live in Greece are Greek citizens. That's all.

As for Pomaks, they do exist and I have read from the International Human Rights page that they are from Bulgarian origin. I do not denny that there were Turks living in Greece, but not ALL muslims are of turkish origin.

Unfortunately not all Greeks or the Greek Government share your level of tolerance and understanding when it comes to recognizing minority rights. Today it is illegal in Greece to use the word "Turkish" in any label, brand or name of organisation. It's strange that all of this is happening in a EU nation but when it comes to Turkey, people bring up the Kurdish question, while Turkey is granting more rights to Kurds today than the Turks have in Greece. Spring came here today.

Greek court bans Muslim association for calling itself "Turkish"
AFP: 1/13/2005

ATHENS, Jan 13 (AFP) - Greece's highest civil court upheld a decision to ban a Muslim minority association for calling itself "Turkish" on grounds of national security, court sources said Thursday.

The decision by Greece's Supreme Court to ban the "Turkish Association of Xanthi," a northeastern Greek town with a strong Muslim minority, was unanimous and cannot be appealed, the source said. It is expected to be officially announced in the coming weeks.

According to the source, the Supreme Court accepted the conclusion of Public Prosecutor Dimitris Linos that the association "served the interest of a foreign country in the attempt to appear a Turkish minority in Greece."

The decision ends a legal wrangle dating back to 1984, when a local court first banned the group on the request of the Xanthi administrator.

Established in 1927, the cultural organization counts some 2,400 members. According to its President Cetin Mandaci, it had "neither caused nor had" any problems.

The Northeastern Greek region of Thrace is home to a 100,000-strong Muslim, Turkish-speaking community that was often a source of friction between Greece and nearby Turkey.

Citing the international 1923 Treaty of Lausanne that established modern Turkey, Athens recognizes the community as Muslim but not as ethnically Turkish.

The 1923 Treaty of Lausanne, signed in the aftermath of a Greek-Turkish war, enshrined a massive exchange of populations between the two countries in order to reduce the potential for inter-communal strife that could bring the two countries to war.

The Turkish-speaking, Muslim population of Greece and the Greek-speaking, Christian population of Istanbul were exempted from the exchange and continued to strain relations between the neighbours, regional rivals and NATO partners.

 

[Shqype]

I think someone else said it best, Albania today in the 21st century is barely civilized, nevermind actually wishing to play it as a civilization.

Unless you can back up your words, don't write them. And have a little more respect.

Tunch_Khan, by what you have shown me it only supports the belief that Greeks are very xenophobic. They are quick to assimilate and condemn non-Greeks (even since ancient times).

 

[Mesix]

There again... "Albanian terrirory" under Ottoman empire . That is Ottoman terrirory. During that time you didnt have your state, believe me.
One more thing: Ottomans divided their territory the way they liked, they didnt divide it like: here - these villayets are Serbian, these are Greek... You of course already know this and just pretend to be naive.

I just wonder why dont you admit you are such a nazi.

I hate to say this, but you are the one that is coming accrossed as intollerant and "nazi" like to borrow your term.

I suppose if someone decides to make a Navajo or Souix mod to celebrate their herritage you will balst them saying that this is American territory and not a real nation. That would be a much mnore accurate argument than what you are making here, but still untrue none the less.

Most of the cities that he is using predate the Otooman Empire. They also predate the arrival of Slavic people to the region.

 

[Shqype]

Thanks for the logic Mesix

 

[Velja]

I suppose if someone decides to make a Navajo or Souix mod to celebrate their herritage you will balst them saying that this is American territory and not a real nation. That would be a much mnore accurate argument than what you are making here, but still untrue none the less.

No, I wouldn't. I said nothing against Illyrian city-list did I? Albanian city-list is what is wrong here, because many cities were never part of Albanian state.
One more thing(I already mentioned, and I would like you to answer me) : how come that Shqype wanted me not to put Kosovo cities in my Serbian mod? They were Serbian 6 centuries before Turks conquered it, and more a century after Turks.
Does that mean that there shouldnt exist in this game American civ? English civ? Hungarian, Bulgarian, almost any Slav civ?

 

[Mesix]

Okay...I had a chance to play through a game as the Albanians.

I never built the special unit because it was obsolete faster than I needed it since I was between wars when I discovered guilds.

It's kind of funny having the Illyrian civ as a neighbor to the Albanian civ. It seems like they should be mutually exclusive of one another.

Overall the mad played nicely. The music and the Albanian flags for the units were nice touches.

 

[Mesix]

Here's an idea for you bickering mod developers.

Instead of arguing over who's better, who owns what cities, ect. why not merge your two civ mods and make a balkan mod (including new civs, units, wonders, etc.).

Playable civs could include (but not be limited to) Ottoman Empire, Austro-Hungarian Empire, Greeks, Albanians, Serbs, and Italy. Perhaps you can learn more about each other's history and herritage and create a mod that incorporates the best of both. Everytime someone plays the mod, they will fight over cities to decide who rules what.

 

[Sideral]

Unless you can back up your words, don't write them. And have a little more respect.

Tunch_Khan, by what you have shown me it only supports the belief that Greeks are very xenophobic. They are quick to assimilate and condemn non-Greeks (even since ancient times).

Dear Shqype,

You are offended when people refer to your country in a general manner, but you have often accused Greece and Greeks in a general way that I find offending myself. Not all Greeks are xenophobic. If the official Greek government has a xenophobic attitude it is sometimes due to the hostile attitude of its neighbouring countries.

I could answer to you that Albanians are xenophobic as well and that the Greek community in Albania has often faced problems. Will you accept that statement?

Tunch Khan, in Turkey a lot of Greek institutions like the Theological school of Chalki, are shut down. Turkish journalists who dare to mention anything concerning the Armenians or the Kurds, face Justice. Your government isn't one of the most liberals on Earth... I think that the situation of the Kurds in Turkey isn't brilliant and that Muslims in Greece, whatever their origin, are getting more and more attention by the government.

Sorry if I sound angry, but I think that we should check our own "house" before judging the one of others...

Bye.

 

[Shqype]

I could answer to you that Albanians are xenophobic as well and that the Greek community in Albania has often faced problems. Will you accept that statement?

Yes I would accept that. Not all Greeks are xenophobic, but I have good examples of the ancient Greeks + the Greek government being xenophobic.

One more thing(I already mentioned, and I would like you to answer me) : how come that Shqype wanted me not to put Kosovo cities in my Serbian mod? They were Serbian 6 centuries before Turks conquered it, and more a century after Turks.

Because that implies that Kosova is Serbian, which is not true. It would be suitable to include those cities in a scenario, for example, of the medieval Serbian empire, but not a "Serbian civilization" which (in-game) spans from 4000 BC to 2050 AD. It is misleading.

Okay...I had a chance to play through a game as the Albanians.

I never built the special unit because it was obsolete faster than I needed it since I was between wars when I discovered guilds.

It's kind of funny having the Illyrian civ as a neighbor to the Albanian civ. It seems like they should be mutually exclusive of one another.

Overall the mad played nicely. The music and the Albanian flags for the units were nice touches.

Yea, I understand what you're saying. I separated them simply to represent the ancient times with the medieval => modern times. Although they are pretty much the same people, I got requests for an Illyrian civ, and I wanted to create the Albanian civ, so I did both. Plus, that allowed for 2 (actually 3) unique UUs which look very good thanks to Aranor and korvgubben.

Soon me and 2 other modders will be putting out a new civ pack which includes 3D leaderheads, so be sure to check out the Albanian civ when that comes out within the next week

And thanks for your compliments Mesix.

 

[Mesix]

I tried out a mod based on the Ancient Med (v. 1.6) and found that the Illyrian civ in there seemed very similar (if not identical) to yours. It was a lot of fun to play on an authentic map of the region with so many cultures of the time period. The larger tech tree and ancient religions added more flavor to the game too (maybe you can convince the creator to add the Illyrian dieties as a new religion in the next update).

I played the Ilyrians and the Greeks declered war on me. The Kombsor units were very well suited for combat in the early game. They were especially strong with a few upgrades. I would place stacks to the north of the Greek cities in the hills. At least two would have bonuses to hill defense and I would siege the cities with sappers while he attacked the stacks of units. Having a couple of units with the medic upgrade in the stack would ensure that my guys healed quickly. Once the cities defenses were at 0% I would attack with the Kombsor units. With two or three city attack upgrades as well as bonuses to medium units and archery units, they would make short work of the defenders.

If this is the same civ that you designed...nice work. If not...you might want to give the mod a try because it is a lot of fun.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144716

p.s. The castle in Kruja would make a nice wonder too.

 

[Shqype]

I just read your post in the TAM thread. And I am pleased to have read it. Gjergj Kastrioti's fortress was built on the remains of an Illyrian citadel, that is true. We have the Oracle of Dodona for a southern Illyrian wonder, but it wouldn't hurt to add another one!

PS - I am part of the modding team for TAM. That Illyrian civ is the one that I created. That is why it is so similar I would like to have the Illyrian gods in the game, however there are restrictions as to how many religions can be in at one time. We've had to remove a planned religion because of this. If we can add more, it certainly would be very flavorful to add the Illyrian!

 

[Velja]

Because that implies that Kosova is Serbian, which is not true. It would be suitable to include those cities in a scenario, for example, of the medieval Serbian empire, but not a "Serbian civilization" which (in-game) spans from 4000 BC to 2050 AD. It is misleading.

No, no, you don't understand ... Kosovo should be Albanian only in WWII scenario, and even than it was under Italian control.

 

[Shqype]

Kosova was Albanian before Serbs even existed. End of story. I keep repeating myself and it's getting tiring.

 

[Tunch Khan]

Tunch Khan, in Turkey a lot of Greek institutions like the Theological school of Chalki, are shut down. Turkish journalists who dare to mention anything concerning the Armenians or the Kurds, face Justice. Your government isn't one of the most liberals on Earth... I think that the situation of the Kurds in Turkey isn't brilliant and that Muslims in Greece, whatever their origin, are getting more and more attention by the government.

Sorry if I sound angry, but I think that we should check our own "house" before judging the one of others...

Don't get defensive, I know what are the pros and cons of the Turkish Governments very well. But we are not EU yet, while Greece is. So thechnically, you're supposed to set an example of freedom and democracy, no?

 

[Prometheus_666]

Ever heard of the Rhodope Mountain ranges? Other than that, your comment disgusts me; but hey, it's just me.

You mean that mountain range which sits almost 90% inside BULGARIA? THAT ONE?

Ah bre Tourko.....

 

[Prometheus_666]

Tunch_Khan, by what you have shown me it only supports the belief that Greeks are very xenophobic. They are quick to assimilate and condemn non-Greeks (even since ancient times).

Quick to assimilate yet xenophobic?

Do you know what an oxymoron is Albanese?

Backup my words?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4273020.stm

http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/Albania.htm

This is a European country in the 21st century. Oh lord.

 

[Tunch Khan]

You mean that mountain range which sits almost 90% inside BULGARIA? THAT ONE?

Ah bre Tourko.....

I travelled with my car from Athens to Istanbul on a few occasions and the road between Kavala and Ipsala is winding between the high valleys enough to make me car sick. One has to see the narrow land slip Greece occupies in Western Thrace to see how even that 10% you mentioned covers the whole area. Have you ever been there yourself palikaria mou?

http://mapmachine.nationalgeographi...meId=100&ext=19.64,34.93055,28.23805,41.74777