Announce: New BAT Lead

[Lemon Merchant]

Ooh, I forget, LM, do you need me to send you a custom build of BULL with all the options on or are you compiling it on your end? [I'm still stick and my brain no worky so that's my excuse!]

Oooh! Yes please. It will save me some time.

Don't worry, drink this shot of whiskey and bite down on this bullet. Nurse Lemon will have you feeling better in no time.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

What options are those exactly?

 

[EmperorFool]

BAT comes with all of the optional compile-time mod flags set:

• Fractional Trade Routes
• AI AutoPlay (default on in BULL already)
• Global Warming
• Sentry Actions
• Governors Build Workers

I'll probably leave the spoiler Hidden Attitudes off, however, as this is BUG after all.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Are you sure about the Global Warming, isn't that just on for BUFFY? Because I don't see the required xml files (terrain,etc)
I don't think I deleted anything from my BAT 2.1 folder when I copied my merge over it, and I know I played using that setup. With GW it would need the terrain xml and some stuff from globaldefines, and would crash on startup (which I know from experience).

The other options are identical, yay. (Spoiler just has to be off imo.)

 

[EmperorFool]

You're right, not Global Warming. I guess that's a good question, though: should I enable it for BAT? I'll merge in the latest 1.10 version, but will it make a difference?

 

[Lemon Merchant]

You're right, not Global Warming. I guess that's a good question, though: should I enable it for BAT? I'll merge in the latest 1.10 version, but will it make a difference?

Er, maybe this is slightly OT, but I actually put all of the GW (and other BULL optional goodness) XML into my current BAT build. It sits there happily not working, unless the DLL is compiled with the optional switches set to on, which I haven't done yet. (It previously worked in BAT 2.1 with the build of BULL 1.0 that I had) I think it would be nifty if in the next BAT/BULL build, we gave the user the option of "activating" the options, either during the install (putting the relevant XML into the folders), or maybe switches in the ini file?

More work for both of us, but it's a win for everybody else.

Edit: Oops. I was a little wrong, after all...

BAT comes with all of the optional compile-time mod flags set:

* Fractional Trade Routes
* AI AutoPlay (default on in BULL already)
* Global Warming
* Sentry Actions
* Governors Build Workers

I'll probably leave the spoiler Hidden Attitudes off, however, as this is BUG after all.

That was true of BAT 2.1, (without GW), but BAT 2.2 (Not ready yet! No PMs!! ) with BULL 1.1 doesn't have the flags set yet, so my above rambling is slightly misleading.

Perhaps EF can plunk a "special" compile in our "secret code swapping folder" for me this weekend. (Hint hint)

 

[EmperorFool]

Okay, I am compiling a clean DLL with all options except Global Warming and Hidden Attitude (Spoiler). As for making these optional in BAT, that's certainly possible at install time. The reason it cannot be at runtime is because the DLL must match the XML items, and the XML is loaded before the DLL so I could not even swap the files during loading.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Okay, I am compiling a clean DLL with all options except Global Warming and Hidden Attitude (Spoiler). As for making these optional in BAT, that's certainly possible at install time. The reason it cannot be at runtime is because the DLL must match the XML items, and the XML is loaded before the DLL so I could not even swap the files during loading.

My goodness, BAT is sure going to have a biiiiig install options list.

I shall make it so. And a big disclaimer: "Remember, boys and girls. Make sure you read ALL of the screens whilst installing."

Oy!

Thank you for the DLL.

 

[EmperorFool]

Just so we're clear, we'll need to have a separate DLL for every possible options combination. For the four listed that means 16 DLLs. And the installer then picks the right one given the options and installs the correct optional assets. Hopefully none of the options have the same assets.

 

[phungus420]

Wouldn't it just make more sense to forgoe Save Game compatibility with BAT and create a couple new proper Game Options, rather then to have 16 separate dlls? Or is that verbotten do to UGness (I'm not sure if BAT needs to be UG though).

Edit: Actually couldn't you just use GlobalDefinesAlt and some BUG module options to toggle these options, rather then build separate dlls? RevDCM does this for quite a few things, and I don't think this breaks save game, and would also eliminate the need for all those #ifdef checks in the dll that are such a pain for mergers to deal with.

 

[EmperorFool]

I'm not worried about save compatibility with BAT since it must be run as a mod, but that's not really the issue anyway. The problem is that changing the constants requires changing the number of elements in the XML files to match.

As for making some features optional at installation, let's look at them one-by-one to see if it's needed.

1. New Sentry Actions - The player can simply not use these new buttons. No need for an option to leave it out.

2. Governors Build Workers - Same as NSA. Leave it on

3. AI AutoPlay - Same as NSA, and it doesn't require new assets anyway. Leave it on

4. Global Warming - Still "broken" so remove it entirely.

5. Fractional Trade Routes - Why would you not want this? This would be a PITA to turn into a game option, and that code wouldn't work outside BULL (breaks saved game compatibility even when off), so that's out of the question. Force it on? Or is it worth having two DLLs for this?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Disabling 1 - 3 would really make no sense.
4 doesn't affect saves and could be updated and rewritten* to only use a few options that you'd have to add to GlobalDefines
*: terrain chain, and what features to remove and when, what gives how much GW defence goes SDK only. All that would be left to add are a few line to GlobalDefines for tuning/turning it on and off.
Does it matter if there are some unused values in GlobalDefines? If not it would even be possible to add a value that determines if the mod is used or not, instead of giving the on/off option only at compile time.

5: No reason not to want this, and it has been in the last BATs too, right? So no reason not to just leave it on.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I completely agree with not removing 1,2,3,and 5. I play with all of those enabled, and like you fellows have said, why would you not want to have them in your game?

EF, ignore my silly question about this subject that I asked earlier. I have my answer.

I shall therefore be lazy, and not make these optional for the new BAT. You can all suffer at my whim...

And what shall I do with all of the free time I have as a result of my laziness? Why, I'm going to beat the living daylights out of Brennus. His beard offends me.

 

[EmperorFool]

Yeah I dunno what to do about Global Warming. We can include those extra defines with no trouble when it's off. The differences in assets is a new GameOptionType: Rising Seas. This could also be set in the XML, making it not configurable at runtime.

But all that doesn't matter given that GW simply doesn't appear given how it's currently coded in 1.10, or am I mistaken on this point? My recollection is that Minor Annoyance is still working on the tuning parameters, and that it doesn't show up right now unless you lob 1000 nukes or set the Forge to 99.

If that's the case, let's just leave it out for now.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Just move Rising Seas optionality to GlobalDefines, as you said. It shouldn't matter, as GW happening is extremely rare alreayd (maybe a bit too rare atm but it's supposed to be rare even if scaling is fixed and tunig is done), so coastal dessert tiles going coast will almost never happen unless you play a dessert-heavy archipelago-style map and all your 1-tile islands have factories and coal plants.
If you update Global Warming in BULL I'd be happy to rewrite, including the scaling changes I proposed in the GW Mod thread, and I believe eventually someone will figure out the tuning too. (that is, if proper scaling isn't already enough)