Anyone had their native allies actually help during the DOI?

[Wombleburger]

Just finished my first game (which I won...more later) but I was wondering if my experience with native allies was typical.
I played as the French and by the end of the game had defensive pacts with three fairly sizeable native nations, two of which were entirely within my cultural borders (I accepted the first time they offered to give me a settlement, then refused all subsequent offers once I realised that it removes a potential trading/native training station!) They had quite a few armed braves in 5-6 settlements each thanks to me donating guns.
Anyway, I eventually declared independence and the REF arrived in massive numbers. They took three of my nine cities before my counter-attacks depleted their numbers and forced the remaining troops to hide in those cities. I eventually dislodged the land forces from my cities (leaving the seas full of approx 80 MOWs) and won.
However, during this time, my native allies did... exactly nothing. Their large stacks of armed braves sat in their settlements during the entire war and never moved. My relations with them were great (especially after I chose the "native rights" option in the constitution) and once the REF captured my cities, I repeatedly requested that my native allies attack them (to which they said "We'll do our best!"). But still they sat in their settlements and did nothing.
Their total contribution to the war was, I think, the destruction of one of the King's Dragoons who wandered away from his friends and attacked one of their settlements. At least, that's what I think happened. There were so many REF dragoons that landed that it was hard to keep track of them all!
So, my question - is there any point to having native allies when you declare independence?

 

[Berba]

I think they'll do it in small scale.. but is it easy to get a defensive pact with the natives???, in Civ IV it was hard to get to "Friendly", at least for me (because i don't like to help with techs... )

 

[Rusty Edge]

I think they'll do it in small scale.. but is it easy to get a defensive pact with the natives???, in Civ IV it was hard to get to "Friendly", at least for me (because i don't like to help with techs... )

Have you tried offering them rum?

I have a defensive pact with one of the tribes... I'm not in a war for independence yet- so i don't know if they'll help.

 

[krunsh]

I don't know if they help, but I know that if you ever start a war (with anyone), your defensive pact are broken so you have to make a new one.

I don't know if independance is like starting a war.

You should look at the diplomacy and see if you still have the defensive pact.

Maybe you can simply ask then to get to war with the king to, don't know.

 

[reverend oats]

They were at war with the King, as indicted by Wombleburger's ability to ask them to attack his cities. However, maybe the problem is they cannot move through your territory. That's all I can think of.

 

[Wombleburger]

Yeah, my native allies were at war with the King. They just didn't seem to do anything except sit in their settlements.

They were able to walk around my territory for most of the rest of the game - they just didn't during the WOI, even when I asked them to attack a captured city.

(BTW - the my original post, the number of native settlements should read 5-6 IN TOTAL, not each! Oops!)

 

[Zhahz]

I had two defensive pacts (also french) in my first WOI - both were suggested by the natives, btw. I had absorbed/destroyed most nearby villages with my bell push so there weren't a whole lot of natives near where the REF landed. And natives never attacked REF troops at all regardless. I surely wouldn't count on native support against the REF.

 

[Gliese 581]

Perhaps the natives only join you for the +our mutual military struggle brings us closer together, without ever intending to actually partake in the war.

 

[Polobo]

The Tupi always seems to want a defensive pact, the others seem to vary. I had a double-pact when I declared and never saw a single unit enter my territory even though I had line-of-sight to their cities.

 

[Gliese 581]

I always get defensive pact offerings from the Cherokee.

 

[Wombleburger]

Hmm? Defensive pacts with the natives are still useful, I suppose, in that it means the natives themselves won't attack you. But they aren't really as useful as they seem because it appears your allies won't attack your enemies either! (Or, at least, they won't attack the REF - I wonder if they'd help if another colony or native nation attacked you?)

Another issue for a potential patch, perhaps? Increase the likelihood that your native allies will actually honour your defensive pacts with more than just words.

 

[Jet]

They helped me a lot on this map. As much as 1/5 of the REF landed to the north, and most of that was dispatched by the natives; the rest spent itself attacking the woods hills.

 

[Wombleburger]

That's interesting... but did they help by actively seeking out and attacking the REF, or just because they were in the way and so part of the REF destroyed itself by attacking them to get to you?

 

[Jet]

In between. 1/6 of the the REF died right around the northern landing tile. I don't know who attacked who. That tile was not strictly on the way to Jamestown, but neither did the natives go very far from their own settlement.

 

[gunhawk]

I had a defensive pact with the Tupis. They didn't help. From these posts it looks like they simply don't.

 

[Wombleburger]

Seems like it's possible that they might be helpful if the REF happens to attack one of their settlements (or possibly just land next to it, or walk by it), but that they generally don't move out of their settlements to help you fight.

 

[atlantique]

It's definetly possible.

On Conquistador I had two tribes near me declare war on the english king when I asked them (they wanted nothing in return either) when he came and both helped, one tribe even sending its troops into my settlements and helping garrison.

I definetly watched them whittle down two of his waves.

that said the fight the battles in a really quick autocalc way and its easy to miss, you'll notice when the REF guys are all wounded though.

Also it seems the AI wont make stupid failed attacks (at least not always) so sometimes they dance around the REF.

 

[Blackmantle]

Yep they did indeed help alot in my first fast-WoI game on revolutionary (End 1595). As long as the REF is really small and you sufficiently stuff them with guns + the War rages far enough inland they will intervene strongly. (also the REF will devote forces to attacking indian villages then. At worst they bind and slow the ref down. )

I had alot of villages of only one tribe around most of my settlements which hurt my native-trading a bit but in the WoI it was a definate advantage. Also mounted + armed braves give a small ref quite a headace.

Oh and they definately weren't just sitting around. They were all over the place.

 

[Berba]

Have you tried offering them rum?

I have a defensive pact with one of the tribes... I'm not in a war for independence yet- so i don't know if they'll help.

Do you offer the rum in the diplomatic screen???

 

[Viperace]

I actually used the world builder and gift the natives dozen of dragoons + Cannons. And then I asked them to declare war on the King, which they did.

What happened next? The natives moved the free troops away from the shore where the fighting took place. Hmm...I thought our relationship was "pleased"