Autocracy Tenet question

[Grumpbeard]

One of the first tenets available to Autocracy is "Elite Forces: Wounded Military Units inflict 25% more damage than normal." My question: Japan's UA lets wounded units attack at full strength. With adopting this tenet, would Japan's units always attack at 125%?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

We can't really answer that question without trying it.

Try asking the devs in this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=497464&page=2

 

[ferretbacon]

I think that they would attack at 125% only when wounded, and at 100% when fully healed.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

One of the first tenets available to Autocracy is "Elite Forces: Wounded Military Units inflict 25% more damage than normal." My question: Japan's UA lets wounded units attack at full strength. With adopting this tenet, would Japan's units always attack at 125%?

1- They'res a thread for this
2-Theyll probably change Japan a little bit

 

[Ulthwithian]

More generally, how is this different from the current Social Policy for Autocracy?

Right now in the game, Japan gets no benefit whatsoever from the Social Policy. While a legitimate question, I think the default answer should be that Japan gets no benefit.

As for myself, I am quite excited by the Blitzkrieg tenet.

 

[Inhalaattori]

"Elite forces" is former "Populism" (Wounded military units deal +25% damage than normal).

There is less problem now, because Japan can choose some of the other tenets. Autocracy was bad for Japan partly because of "Populism" -policy.

 

[Petiscator]

I never understood that policy or Japan's UA correctly. Adopting that policy will give your wounded units a +25% combat bonus or will it make wounded units fight a bit better? Japan's UA seems clear to me that it makes the wounded units fight like a fresh one, as it would be quite OP to get +100% combat strenght for a wounded unit. Can someone clarify?

 

[Ulthwithian]

Petiscator: Well, as you know, the more damage a unit takes, the less damage it deals in combat.

Something like:

100% life = 100% damage
75% life = 80% damage
50% life = 60% damage
etc.

(Note: These are not the actual values; just gives you the idea of the relation.)

For Japan, the right side is always 100%.

If you have Populism (currently), I believe the right side is increased by 25%, to a maximum of 100%.

 

[Grumpbeard]

I apologize for the duplicate thread, I did not find anything when I searched. Apparently I'm a bad searcher. Which is embarrassing. I'm a librarian.

 

[Petiscator]

Petiscator: Well, as you know, the more damage a unit takes, the less damage it deals in combat.

Something like:

100% life = 100% damage
75% life = 80% damage
50% life = 60% damage
etc.

(Note: These are not the actual values; just gives you the idea of the relation.)

For Japan, the right side is always 100%.

If you have Populism (currently), I believe the right side is increased by 25%, to a maximum of 100%.

Ok, now I understood. Thanks, Ulthwithian!

 

[slowmotion7]

Petiscator: Well, as you know, the more damage a unit takes, the less damage it deals in combat.

Something like:

100% life = 100% damage
75% life = 80% damage
50% life = 60% damage
etc.

(Note: These are not the actual values; just gives you the idea of the relation.)

For Japan, the right side is always 100%.

If you have Populism (currently), I believe the right side is increased by 25%, to a maximum of 100%.

That makes sense. If it was a flat 25%, your unit would do more damage if kept between 76 and 99% health.

 

[Inhalaattori]

I think it is confirmed that you can never have more than 100% combat strength even with Japan + populism. So if you are playing Japan you should not choose populism unless you want to finish Autocracy.

 

[Atreju]

But that wounded Japanese units fight at full strength does not mean +100% combat strength.It's a big difference if a unit with 1HP fights with +100% strength or like it would be on full strength.So I don't know why populism should not be good for Japan.It just means that a wounded unit for example 50HP unit fights at full strength and gets a +25% combat bonus.

 

[Inhalaattori]

But that wounded Japanese units fight at full strength does not mean +100% combat strength.It's a big difference if a unit with 1HP fights with +100% strength or like it would be on full strength.So I don't know why populism should not good for Japan.It just means that a wounded unit for example 50HP unit fights at full strength and gets a +25% combat bonus.

No. Bushido (I meant Populism) does not help Japanese units at all.

 

[bcaiko]

More generally, how is this different from the current Social Policy for Autocracy?

It's not. It's the exact same wording as Populism. Several of the Ideology tenants are just the current social policies.

But that wounded Japanese units fight at full strength does not mean +100% combat strength.It's a big difference if a unit with 1HP fights with +100% strength or like it would be on full strength.So I don't know why populism should not good for Japan.It just means that a wounded unit for example 50HP unit fights at full strength and gets a +25% combat bonus.

Your post is a tad difficult to read. But to address the last part, the math for Japanese units applies Populism FIRST and then Bushido is applied SECOND, meaning the effective fighting strength will always be 100%.

If Japan gets an update, it will be to the Zero, which is widely loathed by players (as are Fighters in general).

 

[Yzman]

But that wounded Japanese units fight at full strength does not mean +100% combat strength.It's a big difference if a unit with 1HP fights with +100% strength or like it would be on full strength.So I don't know why populism should not good for Japan.It just means that a wounded unit for example 50HP unit fights at full strength and gets a +25% combat bonus.

No. As far as I can understand it works more like this

Normal Civ

HP Strength %
100 100
50 70
1 10

Japan

100 100
50 100
1 100

Fascist Civ

100 100
50 87.5
1 12.5

Japan's ability is clearly superior because the strength is always 100%. This is why it is not affected by the social policy, because 100 is the max and Japan is already at it.

 

[Atreju]

No. As far as I can understand it works more like this

Normal Civ

HP Strength %
100 100
50 70
1 10

Japan

100 100
50 100
1 100

Fascist Civ

100 100
50 87.5
1 12.5

Japan's ability is clearly superior because the strength is always 100%. This is why it is not affected by the social policy, because 100 is the max and Japan is already at it.

I think there is a missunderstanding.A wounded Japanese unit fights WITH hundred 100%strength but not a +100%COMBAT BONUS like said in posts above. Populism should still be helpful for wounded Japanese units because first, a 80 HP unit fights with 100% strength BUT it is STILL WOUNDED and gets a +25% combat bonus.

 

[Atreju]

It's not. It's the exact same wording as Populism. Several of the Ideology tenants are just the current social policies.



Your post is a tad difficult to read. But to address the last part, the math for Japanese units applies Populism FIRST and then Bushido is applied SECOND, meaning the effective fighting strength will always be 100%.

If Japan gets an update, it will be to the Zero, which is widely loathed by players (as are Fighters in general).

Why does it matter what apllies first?A wounded Japanese unit, for example 80HP fights with full combat strength like it would have 100HP but it still is wounded, granting the +25% combat bonus, doesn't matter if you calculate A+B or B+A.

 

[Atreju]

No. Bushido does not help Japanese units at all.

What do you mean with that?Of course Bushido helps Japanese units.

 

[slowmotion7]

Ah, so its not an additive bonus.

NOT
50% is 70% +25% = 95% power

IS
50% is 70% + (25% * 70%) = 87.5%

But the question still remains... does a fascist Japanese unit that is wounded get the 25% boost as well?