Avatar of Wrath experience

[largedarryl]

Well in my game last night, I was attempting to finish a game that I was going to win (I figured I'd actually finish grinding this game into a domination victory).

I wasn't very experienced with FfH and I took too long to conquer my powerful neighbour. So the game is basically at the end of the tech tree and the other high level civs are behind in tech. It's a 2 continent game and my continent is occupied by Calibam (me), Clan of Embers, Hyborem and the Clowns (don't remember the name). Out of these there are only myself and the clan that have any noteable military strength (and he's friendly with me, as is hyborem). So the other island has Banor, Merceriums, Kuriotates and Sheam. Since the only threats are the Banor/Merceriums and Kuriotates, I gift almost every good tech to Sheam, hoping it would help (but they got over-run pretty quickly). So I set off on a trip across the ocean and I unload my main army, basically containing a collection of lvl 12 vampires, 2 vampire lords, 2 brujah, 3 heroes (losha valos, a horse rider and the winged guy), a high priest of AV, inquisitor, a summoner, mages, sheild walls, flurries, shadows, etc. (basically its my entire army). Most of my other cities are under-protected (think lvl1 longbowmen or crossbowmen) in most of my other cities. Well my army is broken into 3 stacks, which are unbeatable and just walk right over even the most heavily defended cities without reducing the defensive bonuses (run over a banor city that had 105% bonus and 3 heavy crossbowmen, plus a bunch of other units). My basic plan is to go and burn the major cities of my enemies and conquer everything easy to get the dom.

Well low and behold I get a message about the Avatar of Wrath he pops up in the middle of my territory between 4 cities, I look up the units stats, and I think, well that seems pretty easy to beat, just throw a bunch of fodder at him and then finish him off with a couple of my vampires. Well I mistake the stack info as a graphical error because the stack contains vampires, vampire lords and brujah. So I skip my turn waiting to see what is going to happen, and I lose 2 cities in the first turn, followed by 2 more the next turn. Well I am utterly shocked to see that basically an army that is a complete replica of mine (promotions and all) combined with the clans and Kuriotates armies. After the first turn there are roughly 14 tiles all filled with stacks of more than 20 units each.

So my easy victory turne into an attempt to stop the bleading. Since it would have taken ages to get my army back home (I was only able to Losha back because of the immortality). The problems we're not the Avatar of Wrath (he was easy because I got him to waste 1/2 his strength to kill, actually kill her, losha on a forested hill, then used 2 lvl 12 vampires to finish him off) The problem was the fact that the vampire lords and brujah walking around my land with CombatV and commando. I spent probably 10 turns trying to stop the bulk of enemies roaming my lands at will (needing to trade 2-3 lvl 10 vampires for almost every good unit) I could probably go back through the logs, but I bet trying to kill this army of soldiers, I lost (just making good estimates) 8 sheild walls, 3 vampire lords, 8 brujah, 40 vampires, 60 crossbowmen, 20 longbowmen, 6 flurries, 10 beastman, 1 archmage, 1 summoner, 1 high priest, 1 inquisitor, losha valos, 4 stratiots, 8 marksmen and I probably ate 30 bloodpets. Not to mention the amount of money I spent and people I whipped to make these units (I spent 4300 gold to rush the Meshabber of Dis, a little too late though since he is only being used for cleanup now). Well after losing so many units, I'm still attempting to recapture 2 cities, each containing more than 20 units in each one, but it will be soon. During this little misfortune, my power graph fell, sharply, so the clan decided to declare war on me, damn backstabbers .

Well if you've actually read my entire post, has anyone else experienced this unfortunate happening (if I were the clan it wouldn't have made a difference because they are at peace with the barbs). Please share you're experiences.

But as for a suggestion, I think the placement of this army of doom could potentially wipe out 2-3 AI civs. Would it make more sense to have the Avatar of Wrath spawn his army in several world locations (so an armaggedon affects everyone). He could appear with several units, and then have the horsemen appear in different world locations with a part of the stack. This would cause the Avatar of Wrath appearance cause a worldwide appearance of death, instead of 1 or 2 civs getting hosed.

 

[rusty217]

Actually i think it works allright atm, as you said you "thought" you had an easy victory, it just seems to make the end game a little harder, or depending on your civ alot easier.

 

[Pocus]

Unless I'm mistaken, are you saying that the Avatar comes with an army which is the mirror of what the player have? I would hate this feature, feeling it rather unfair. Can someone clarify that please?

 

[3141592]

I believe the Avatar converts some percentage of the worlds units to his own cause, so the better units you have, the better units he has.
It is a good effect, I think, because then the better civs get hurt more then the weaker civs and the game gets harder.

Did you manage to pull out a win?

 

[Sarisin]

When the Armageddon Counter hits 90 I think about half of all units become barbarian and join the Avatar's army. That's why you will see everything: Angels, Hunting Demons, Axemen, Longbowmen, even Workers. But, the heroes will not join this army - they will be culled when the Counter hits 90.

I WAS playing a civ that was at peace with the barbarians (Charadon) and my strategy was to get the counter to 90 quickly so I could have the Avatar and his army as allies. Yes, I would lose some of my units, but actually gain as the barbs grew.

But, somehow, I messed up (the details are in the .22 bug thread) and became too civilized! The barbs declared war on me, and, as you said, the lot of them gathered in a city on my border. I was the target, of course, and after losing two cities and two heroes decided Game Over.

A sure thing win turned into a disaster for me.

 

[rusty217]

I think he can only take living units..
which makes it a good event for the civs that are best at bringing the ac up,
also gives most civs the incentive to actually stop the ac

 

[Sarisin]

I think he can only take living units..
which makes it a good event for the civs that are best at bringing the ac up,
also gives most civs the incentive to actually stop the ac

I've definitely seen Angels in his army, you might be right about not getting any Undead.

It's interesting that when the counter hits 100, the Mercurians (and, I suppose Hyborem), get a ton of units.

 

[3141592]

Thats because 75% of the living units die, and when a unit of a good alignment dies they go to the Mercurians and when a unit of a bad alignment dies they go the Hyborem.

 

[Sarisin]

Thats because 75% of the living units die, and when a unit of a good alignment dies they go to the Mercurians and when a unit of a bad alignment dies they go the Hyborem.

Do you know if that is the case for summoned units as well? I'm talking about the ones that seem to be living, not fireballs, etc.

I remember finding an exploit that would give you an Angel when you kept attaching and detaching a Great Commander each turn. Not sure if that has been fixed.

 

[largedarryl]

Well I still haven't won this game yet, but it's possible the delay in my attack may force me into a time victory . I still don't I think I can lose (it could be close because the Kuriotates are close to a altar of luanartor victory. I actually would have never known about the avatar of wrath army because this was going to be a game where I was just going to quit.

I do like the idea of the large amount of units getting converted to a barbarian army, but does anybody else think this army should be placed in multiple places across the world? I could only imagine how an ai would deal with this problem (probably not well). If this army was split up into many places across the world, almost all the civs would need to redirect their attention.

I do think all the units taken were living units. It's actually difficult because I am pretty sure he had atleast 1 high priest of every religion was there.

 

[xanaqui42]

Wrath

• Avatar of Wrath is generated.
• Every land, non-unique unit owned by any player other than the Barbarian State has a 31% chance of being taken control of by the Barbarian State, and teleported to Avatar of Wrath's location.

The one that affects non-living units (owned by non-Fallow leaders) is Apocalypse (not Wrath).

 

[rusty217]

I would agree with the pedia rather than the wiki and its living units only....
with picturesque proof

Spoiler :

 

[3141592]

I do like the idea of the large amount of units getting converted to a barbarian army, but does anybody else think this army should be placed in multiple places across the world? I could only imagine how an ai would deal with this problem (probably not well). If this army was split up into many places across the world, almost all the civs would need to redirect their attention.

That could be interesting, but it also might nerf the Avatar. If all of his units were split up then they would be much easier to destroy.

 

[Bitwise]

I like how dangerous he is. Some incentive to control the counter as much as possible when it gets that high.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I would agree with the pedia rather than the wiki and its living units only....
with picturesque proof

Honestly I don't remember, but it is entirely possible for the pedia to get outdated.

 

[xanaqui42]

I would agree with the pedia rather than the wiki and its living units only....
with picturesque proof

Spoiler :

It seems that the civilopedia is wrong:

	def FFHWrath(self):
		self.FFHAddUnit(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_WRATH'))
		bPlayer = gc.getPlayer(gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER())
		py = PyPlayer(gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER())
		for pUnit in py.getUnitList():
			if pUnit.getUnitType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_WRATH'):
				pPlot = pUnit.plot()
		for iPlayer in range(gc.getMAX_PLAYERS()):
			pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
			if (pPlayer.isAlive() and iPlayer != gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER()):
				py = PyPlayer(iPlayer)
				for pUnit in py.getUnitList():
					iRand = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(100, "Bob")
					if (iRand <= gc.getDefineINT('WRATH_CONVERT_CHANCE') and isWorldUnitClass(pUnit.getUnitClassType()) == False):
						if pUnit.getDomainType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('DOMAIN_LAND'):
							newUnit = bPlayer.initUnit(pUnit.getUnitType(), pPlot.getX(), pPlot.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI)
							newUnit.setExperience(pUnit.getExperience(), -1)
							newUnit.setLevel(pUnit.getLevel())
							for iCount in range(gc.getNumPromotionInfos()):
								if (pUnit.isHasPromotion(iCount)):
									newUnit.setHasPromotion(iCount, True)
							pUnit.kill(False,0)

The players owning the units have to be alive. The units merely have to be land domain, and not limited to a specific number in the world (i.e. a Hero).

 

[Sarisin]

It seems that the civilopedia is wrong:

	def FFHWrath(self):
		self.FFHAddUnit(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_WRATH'))
		bPlayer = gc.getPlayer(gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER())
		py = PyPlayer(gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER())
		for pUnit in py.getUnitList():
			if pUnit.getUnitType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_WRATH'):
				pPlot = pUnit.plot()
		for iPlayer in range(gc.getMAX_PLAYERS()):
			pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
			if (pPlayer.isAlive() and iPlayer != gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER()):
				py = PyPlayer(iPlayer)
				for pUnit in py.getUnitList():
					iRand = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(100, "Bob")
					if (iRand <= gc.getDefineINT('WRATH_CONVERT_CHANCE') and isWorldUnitClass(pUnit.getUnitClassType()) == False):
						if pUnit.getDomainType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('DOMAIN_LAND'):
							newUnit = bPlayer.initUnit(pUnit.getUnitType(), pPlot.getX(), pPlot.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI)
							newUnit.setExperience(pUnit.getExperience(), -1)
							newUnit.setLevel(pUnit.getLevel())
							for iCount in range(gc.getNumPromotionInfos()):
								if (pUnit.isHasPromotion(iCount)):
									newUnit.setHasPromotion(iCount, True)
							pUnit.kill(False,0)

The players owning the units have to be alive. The units merely have to be land domain, and not limited to a specific number in the world (i.e. a Hero).

I am just finishing up a game and there were definitely Angels in the Avatar's barb army because I had some attack my cities.

 

[largedarryl]

That could be interesting, but it also might nerf the Avatar. If all of his units were split up then they would be much easier to destroy.

Well in an attempt to make this more balanced would be to up the percentage of units converted. If the avatar appearance would say convert 50% of the worlds units, and place them across the world. This wouldn't nerf the avatar because as you would expect, most of a civs units would become barbarians.

I think that an average strength size would need to be decided because some stacks could be too strong.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

Wow...your game actually gets that far along? Not being on Pangea could make that much of a difference I suppose. The AI is horrible at using boats, so I try to stick to Huge Pangea maps. The Bannor, and the Hipppus are very destructive on such a setting, and I can usually win by conquest before the AC hits 40 (on Prince anyway).

I still find tradisional military units to be superior to disciple or caster style units for the fact that you can pump them out quicker and sooner in the game.

Of course, I have yet to try the game in the .23 version, where agriculture has been reduced/balanced.

 

[rusty217]

It seems that the civilopedia is wrong:

	def FFHWrath(self):
		self.FFHAddUnit(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_WRATH'))
		bPlayer = gc.getPlayer(gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER())
		py = PyPlayer(gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER())
		for pUnit in py.getUnitList():
			if pUnit.getUnitType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_WRATH'):
				pPlot = pUnit.plot()
		for iPlayer in range(gc.getMAX_PLAYERS()):
			pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
			if (pPlayer.isAlive() and iPlayer != gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER()):
				py = PyPlayer(iPlayer)
				for pUnit in py.getUnitList():
					iRand = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(100, "Bob")
					if (iRand <= gc.getDefineINT('WRATH_CONVERT_CHANCE') and isWorldUnitClass(pUnit.getUnitClassType()) == False):
						if pUnit.getDomainType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('DOMAIN_LAND'):
							newUnit = bPlayer.initUnit(pUnit.getUnitType(), pPlot.getX(), pPlot.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI)
							newUnit.setExperience(pUnit.getExperience(), -1)
							newUnit.setLevel(pUnit.getLevel())
							for iCount in range(gc.getNumPromotionInfos()):
								if (pUnit.isHasPromotion(iCount)):
									newUnit.setHasPromotion(iCount, True)
							pUnit.kill(False,0)

The players owning the units have to be alive. The units merely have to be land domain, and not limited to a specific number in the world (i.e. a Hero).

Well it seems better that way, atleast all players get affected that way, it just seemed to be mostly living units from my last game but i never had many non living so....