AW Shucks

[astre]

could i get the traduction of SSE and SH please

but a lone remark: if we build 1 wonder, it will be a very good performance i think.
We are not louis with stone and marble and special discount

we are inca with crappy lands who needs to build a fortress on thier island

 

[vanatteveldt]

SH = StoneHenge
SSE = Super Specialist Economy, eg focus on a great capital with lots of wonders and settled great people

TGW will be a huge military discount as south america will have lots of barbs by the time we get there.

IMHO City #2 should be north (Ecuador), with a corn and a hill it is a decent city for producing more workers/settlers and can use the whip to get some infra. Chile (on our side of the mountains) is fine but stuck at size #2 working two copper mines. Southern Chile, e.g. the point immediately south of the 'gap' is a great staging point location with seafood, deer, and mines. Buenos Aires is a superb city, and should be founded ASAP, especially if we have TGW.

 

[astre]

thanx.
never eard about SSE, but i fugured out it was something like spetialist economy...


btw, my proposition for chile was your south chile.
I don't think we need copper that soon to have to plant a city in norther chile.

 

[vanatteveldt]

SSE was 'popularized' by Obsolete, who demonstrated deity wins with very few cities and no cottages, doing crazy stuff like building wonders even before the first worker and not improving capital seafood until the middle ages because he couldn't take focus off of the wonders. Unfortunately, most of his threads lost their images because of image hosting site shenanigans.

I agree northern Chile is not very good, but it does produce something like 8 hammers per turn at size 2, which is nothing to sneeze at. So, especially if we don't get TGW, it's a decent early unit pump and does not need any infra except barracks. Also, if we don't get TGW, we will need copper pretty soon as barb axemen are not so nice with only Quechuas.

Note that my observations come from immortal play, so we might have some more time until barb axemen on emperor...

 

[r_rolo1]

I am strongly against doing the Great wall. It is a good wonder, but we already have a great wall of mountains We need the prod for other stuff .. and even if we go wonders, I would prefer 1000 times the Mids or GLH.

And I prefer city #2 in northern Chile and city #3 in Montevideo ( really , the Buenos Aires square is awful for a city ). I agree that the Montevideo site is not that good but it has a decent prod and could easily make units to fight the berbs or to garrison the settlers that Montevideo will spit out ...

 

[pigswill]

Nice to see some debate being generated.

Glite might be a cool wonder to build and easier than stoneless pyramids.

I like the chilean deer site and also the PH inland site grabbing copper.

 

[vanatteveldt]

I think that if we don't get TGW we shouldn't get any wonder (except Oracle). Stoneless pyramids will be really tough with a bored stone carrying Louis on the other side. The lighthouse would be nice but not vital. We need to settle south america ASAP. The cities need to be build, jungle cleared, and cottages matured (unless we go for a more hammer oriented game). The sooner we start, the better. TGW contribute towards that goal by requiring a lot less military.

 

[pigswill]

An Alphabetical Roster

astre UP to start

lymond on deck

nocho

pigswill

r_rolo1 aka rolo

vanetteveldt (is there an acceptable abbreviation?)

 

[vanatteveldt]

vanetteveldt (is there an acceptable abbreviation?)

Heh . I'm fine with anything, "van", or 'van A' should save some typing.

 

[astre]

heu, ok, i'm UP...
but i will not start until we have a clear plan in front of us
personnaly, i need to remember the map and to try one opening or two

How long should be the first set?

 

[pigswill]

I guess that depends on the initial plan.

Settling 2E for 2 corn, gold and hill is the standard inca opening iirc.

Despite rolo's reservations Gwall does have its merits for the barbarian infested amazonian jungles.

I'd avoid exploring north as long as possible, the later Monte encounters us the more time he has to pick on Boy George.

 

[r_rolo1]

I it not a reservation, it is a dislike for the idea I already played that particular map in that particular zone a couple of times and barbs were never a big issue. First the mountain chain protects our cap , second, the N. Chile city can only be attacked via a hill tile, making it easy to defend, third, the Montevideo city can be made safe enough by simply spawnbust with 2 units north of it due to the geography .... and to be honest, we actually want to fight barbs ... otherwise we will never get a unit for HE until very late.

 

[astre]

quick question: how to make signs of city BFC?
I'd like to propose a spot map and quick propositions

EDIT: found (BUG addition)

 

[pigswill]

Ooh, a proposal .

 

[astre]

well, maybe the word is not best chosen ^^
My english is not yet perfect, don't be afraid to correct me

Well, i took a start from E18, reveal the whole map and put some BFC with name on it to discuss.
The 3 pictures are attached. I put the save also. Don't be afraid to modify it and present it back for your own ideas.

I think we have 3 major plans:
- stay in our fortress, build wonders
- go north, force iron working
- go south

if we want to left our inner land, we will need fishing/sailing as a priority.

As already said, I'm for the rich and jungle-less south with the goal of montevideo (or buenos aires whatever ^^ ).

 

[lymond]

I also agree that GW is not needed. I also think it will be very difficult to get any wonders. The start is just way to poor.

What about settling Cuzco SE of the corn. Gives it the lake and later irrigates the corn. It's never going to be much of a city no matter where we settle. Potentially, and I don't think it should be the second city, we can settle whale/corn/silver which will irrigate that corn as well.

I think copper city should go next to the grass copper. It will take forever to get this city to do anything otherwise. The grass copper makes it immediately productive. I think this should be our second city as it will be more productive immediately that dye/corn

I think clam/gold up north should be settled to create the Panama canal. (although technically that tile would not be Panama)

BW>Sailing>Wheel as initial tech path. We can ship axe over to the other side to start barb defense. Our initial Quecha, unless unlucky, should get to Wood 3 very easily at which point we can move him around safely.

and....

Spoiler :

I'm pretty sure this game is unwinnable, but we can give it our best shot

 

[astre]

The 2 corns really give a good bonus into theses crappy lands. but this can be considered

but for me, the real question is : where to plant second city?


note: did a try to south road with eavy whipping and founded santiago by -1880.

 

[nocho]

Lima location looks good to me, double corn for early whipping of settlers and boats strikes me as a good idea. Copper likely should go next to have axes to safely settle santiago and then the rest of south america subsequently. Copper indeed better 1S as lymond said.

Agree we don't need GW but do think we'll have to focus later on espionage to keep up in tech in AW. A trap city in south america to be able to steal from someone more cheaply should be considered later.

 

[pigswill]

It depends on how much leeway we have before barb axes appear; quechas should be able to cope with warriors and archers (hopefully). There's the site north of Lima which can share corn with Lima. There's the Santiago deerfish site of course. My preferred copper site is the other side of the Andes ESE of southern copper, plains hill 1 N of corn though it does need a border pop for copper. The western coast copper site isn't great long term but may have to suffice if barb axes appear too early though we could of course tech archery as an interim measure.

 

[lymond]

I think we put too much value on those dry plains corns. Cuzco SE of corn gives it a FIN lake and actually makes it a good Maoi Cap candidate. 4F corn is not that great at all. Settling it the way I described allows irrigation to both corns.

With a LH, copper city will eventually always be able to grow (barring eventual health limitations) and work the desert copper, which a size 4 makes it a good worker/settler pump.

I've basically tested early phases and just miss out on any wonders. Not worth trying for them as hammers are just too important. GLH or Oracle>MC would be good options, but I don't think we will get either one.

and...

Spoiler :

no way in hell we win this game Hate to say it but I really think we should go with a much lower difficulty to make this worthwhile. AW is hard enough on most any advanced level, but this situations is even more of a disadvantage. A most quixotic endeavor indeed