obsolete
Deity
I like that description.
Axxon's Guide to All You Want To Know About REF, Rebel Sentiment and Revolution
- Thread starter Axxon
- Start date
I like that description.
In my last game, I finally won (but on pilgrim
), and I was able to explode with my liberty bells. I went from not producing any (except for three on accident from the stupid AI), to enough for Revolution in ~10 turns, and I only had two elder statesmen at the beginning of the ten turns (I had 6 by the end of it). I had 4 colonies, 3 with around 15 population, and one with 6. I then proceeded to whoop the King's ass.
), and I was able to explode with my liberty bells. I went from not producing any (except for three on accident from the stupid AI), to enough for Revolution in ~10 turns, and I only had two elder statesmen at the beginning of the ten turns (I had 6 by the end of it). I had 4 colonies, 3 with around 15 population, and one with 6. I then proceeded to whoop the King's ass.Yeah, exploding is apparently the only way to beat the game.In my last game, I finally won (but on pilgrim
The approach most people will take -- building a large colony that makes a ton of money and producing bells over time -- will do nothing but build the REF and still not let you rebel. It's also the approach the game encourages you to take through the other game mechanics.
Xochipilli
Chieftain
So the many claims in other posts that the King add's units countering the ones you've build is a myth? It's all pure randomn? Sad!
Also having a big army doesn't worry the king a all? Only bell's count toward REF increase, or is there more to it?
historix69
Emperor
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2008
- Messages
- 1,402
Problem with current implementation of REF-Increase-Rate is that the REF can grow exponentially ... In a game on marathon where I started Bell-Production from the beginning, around turn 750/900 the REF started increasing by +50 units every view turns ... I wonder if there is a limit for REF-Size ...
Would be a nice idea for a new contest :
Who can generate the highest REF?
There is no such thing as "counters" in the code as I can see. Just random.
REF is all about bells, nothing else. Only places in the code where the "revolution units" (as the code calls them) are added, is when bells change and when the game initially starts.
Wow, thanks for enlightening me 
It's a bit sad how this works, though... I had this problem, having 20ish size colonys, all fully staffed towncentres with newspapers and still didn't get over ~60-70% in my cities, 46% overall. Thanks to some size 1 colonies with statesmen only, i finally could revolt.
In my last game I tried it out, producing bells from the start till the end. Sometime I was bored and revolted, the king had about 1200 Soldiers, 800 Dragoons, 600 cannons and 180 MoW against me.
But Simon Bolivar just kicks ass
It's a bit sad how this works, though... I had this problem, having 20ish size colonys, all fully staffed towncentres with newspapers and still didn't get over ~60-70% in my cities, 46% overall. Thanks to some size 1 colonies with statesmen only, i finally could revolt.
In my last game I tried it out, producing bells from the start till the end. Sometime I was bored and revolted, the king had about 1200 Soldiers, 800 Dragoons, 600 cannons and 180 MoW against me.
But Simon Bolivar just kicks ass
Liberty bells?
Liberty balls are more like it!
At least I still have a copy of the 1994 game and it kicks arse. I got so bloody excited when I read about the new colonization - having tried it and reading the stuff on here has put quite a damper on that. At least I didn't buy it yet. I shall play the original game while I hope for a sane patch to be produced to fix some of the more hopeless gameplay issues that plagues this new abomination. Anyone know if Sid was actually involved with this horrid thing?
In the meantime I shall be frolicking on the savannahs and be going to the custom house when in need of refreshments. Enjoying a brave new world where education is free, the only available promotion is that of veteran and burning native villages the quickest way to raise money and train your armies in preparation for kicking old Europes arse into the next century.
Liberty balls are more like it!
At least I still have a copy of the 1994 game and it kicks arse. I got so bloody excited when I read about the new colonization - having tried it and reading the stuff on here has put quite a damper on that. At least I didn't buy it yet. I shall play the original game while I hope for a sane patch to be produced to fix some of the more hopeless gameplay issues that plagues this new abomination. Anyone know if Sid was actually involved with this horrid thing?
In the meantime I shall be frolicking on the savannahs and be going to the custom house when in need of refreshments. Enjoying a brave new world where education is free, the only available promotion is that of veteran and burning native villages the quickest way to raise money and train your armies in preparation for kicking old Europes arse into the next century.
Grotius
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 409
I love this new version of Colonization, even if I don't love this particular mechanic. One question about it: why does individual city sentiment matter? I know that "global" sentiment affects whether you can declare independence, and I think it also affects your combat bonuses. What does individual city sentiment affect? Production bonuses inside that city?
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
dalgo
Emperor
Thanks Axxon, this has been a lot of help in understanding the mechanics of the game. If I take your original premise -
- and turn it round I can calculate that my maximum global rebel sentiment would be (bells per turn x 25/total population).
To take a recent example with 463 bells/turn and a population of 193 my maximum RS would be 463x25/193 = 60%.
Is this correct?
- and turn it round I can calculate that my maximum global rebel sentiment would be (bells per turn x 25/total population).
To take a recent example with 463 bells/turn and a population of 193 my maximum RS would be 463x25/193 = 60%.
Is this correct?
BobTheBull
Warlord
It should be pointed out that production of everything is increased by half your rebel percent. If you have 50% sentiment production of everything in that city will be increased by 25%, and I think that is after all other increases. Food, lumber, tools, bells, everything. This can turn those starving industrial cities into a slight food surplus; it can also lead to serious overproduction of tools and guns. I have laid off about half my blacksmiths and gunsmiths right now. It's pretty bad when the economy even affects your computer games!
JBConquests
Prince
Wish I had read this thread prior to me playing my last game. My 4 cities were around 20 or so and I had a huge military. I was accumulating more military every couple turns. I got to the point where all of my cities were supporting revolution at 100% but my overall percentage on the revoluation screen was 46% and shrinking.
I couldn't figure out a way to start a revolution. I had 3 elder statesman in all cities and had built the appropriate buildings. It seems to me this algorithm is very flawed. It makes no sense that all of your cities support revolution at 100% but you aren't allowed to because of the overall %.
I couldn't figure out a way to start a revolution. I had 3 elder statesman in all cities and had built the appropriate buildings. It seems to me this algorithm is very flawed. It makes no sense that all of your cities support revolution at 100% but you aren't allowed to because of the overall %.
I hope you'll pardon me for bumping an old, old thread, but I would like to thank you for providing this information, all the same. I have been absolutely tearing my hair out, sinking countless (apparently futile) hours into Colonization, doing my damnedest to spark the revolution, all without success.
I searched every inch of the Civilopedia, and based on its incomplete advice, I did what so many here have mentioned -- every one of my cities was flooded with elder statesmen and newspapers, every colony was well above 90% for rebel sentiment, yet the revolution advisor consistently pegged my independence at 43% and refused to budge.
In no way did the game ever point out to me, or drop a hint, that my grand army (which I had built up at the game's urging to handle the incoming REF, which was growing larger every 3-4 turns due to my massive and pointless production of liberty bells) were all perfectly content with overseas imperial rule. I was just about to write the game off as bugged. I still may.
At least, now, knowing how the game actually works, I may be able to take another shot at it. I thank you for providing this help, without which further progress would be impossible. Much appreciated!
I searched every inch of the Civilopedia, and based on its incomplete advice, I did what so many here have mentioned -- every one of my cities was flooded with elder statesmen and newspapers, every colony was well above 90% for rebel sentiment, yet the revolution advisor consistently pegged my independence at 43% and refused to budge.
In no way did the game ever point out to me, or drop a hint, that my grand army (which I had built up at the game's urging to handle the incoming REF, which was growing larger every 3-4 turns due to my massive and pointless production of liberty bells) were all perfectly content with overseas imperial rule. I was just about to write the game off as bugged. I still may.
At least, now, knowing how the game actually works, I may be able to take another shot at it. I thank you for providing this help, without which further progress would be impossible. Much appreciated!
I'd hate to break it to you all, but it is actually historically accurate to have the revolution be a quick burst. Until 1763, nearly all colonists in America were loyal Englishmen. They effectively declared war in 1776 officially (although shots were fired on both sides before then and they entered a de facto state of war in 1775, and the first Continental Congress was founded in 1774 -- also indicative of intense desire to separate).
So, I guess the sweet spot of about 10-20 turns to build up rebel sentiment and declare independence sounds about right. You don't start rebel sentiment with Columbus...and if people start to rebel, the king is more likely to build up his forces.
So, I guess the sweet spot of about 10-20 turns to build up rebel sentiment and declare independence sounds about right. You don't start rebel sentiment with Columbus...and if people start to rebel, the king is more likely to build up his forces.
Yeah, there was a series of events that contributed to a rapid rise in independence sentiment:
1) Benjamin Franklin publishing (indirectly) letters between a colonial governor and parliament indicating a desire to quash the relative independence the colonials had been enjoying.
2) Thomas Paine publishing Common Sense
3) The various "outrages" perpetuated on the American people by the Brits.
But the game doesn't model this sort of thing at all. Instead it gives an exponential response to the cumulative liberty bells generated, but only allows independence if you kill off enough of your own people to make the instantaneous LB production exceed 50%.
As other people have said, it makes no sense that 100% of your population supports independence but the game equation won't let you rebel due to the brain-dead equation used in the game.
