aztec advantage: what's the point?

[Jim Bro]

+2 culture wins per unit means you get probably less than a 1000 culture per game (epic), which is a ridiculously low. how is this advantage suppose to be comparable to other civs'?

 

[Thormodr]

+2 culture wins per unit means you get probably less than a 1000 culture per game (epic), which is a ridiculously low. how is this advantage suppose to be comparable to other civs'?

You get culture equal to the strength of the unit killed. I believe things were changed up in the latest patch.

So you'd get 6 culture for killing a Brute, 11 for killing a swordsman, 4 for killing an archer, etc.

Winning culturally like that is certainly a lot more challenging and fun than winning with the pink or blue spaceship.

 

[Strategist83]

I doubt Aztecs are meant to win culturally. Consider it more like a boost on their quest for world domination. The Aztec unique ability is geared towards war and conquest, not cultural victory.

As for the balancing of it, I think it's dubious. The bonus should probably be some 4-5x unit strength or even more to make any sense.

There are a number of civs that require rebalancing. The Ottomans are bad off, as well.

 

[UWHabs]

It's a small bonus. My Aztec game I basically conquered the world, and from it, I probably only got 1 extra social policy than without their UA.

I think the biggest thing with them would be to go out and attack early. Getting 7 or 11 culture right at the beginning of the game when a social policy costs 90 is a lot better than getting 36 from an Infantry when social policies cost 2500.

 

[Keejus]

I think the big thing Aztec needs is for their UA to scale with the age you're in.

They have an absolutely fantastic UB, though; one of the best in the game

 

[Pouakai]

I doubt Aztecs are meant to win culturally. Consider it more like a boost on their quest for world domination. The Aztec unique ability is geared towards war and conquest, not cultural victory.

As for the balancing of it, I think it's dubious. The bonus should probably be some 4-5x unit strength or even more to make any sense.

There are a number of civs that require rebalancing. The Ottomans are bad off, as well.

I suggest you read Maltz's latest tale in the Stories section - Turns out Ottomans are far from public percievement.

Anyway, 4-5x combat strength would be way overpowered. Early game, kill a brute = Social policy

 

[Guardian_PL]

The higher difficulty level you play, the more Aztecs shine. Very good civ, all their abilities are good.

 

[Draco84]

I played Aztec in a multiplayer game the other day, for the last 50-60 turns I was gaining more culture from kills then I was through my cities... although I don't think it helped all that much... killing the hordes of barbarians near my cities at the beginning of the game netted me at least a policy or two.

 

[AfterShafter]

I think the big thing Aztec needs is for their UA to scale with the age you're in.

They have an absolutely fantastic UB, though; one of the best in the game

Really? I've actually never played the Aztec's more than a little bit, but, aren't lakes just far too rare on most map scripts to make much use out of that UB?

 

[Drawmeus]

The higher difficulty level you play, the more Aztecs shine. Very good civ, all their abilities are good.

Even their start bias is awesome. Early hammers can be a bit rough, but you can get some huge megacities with them.

EDIT: The UB isn't just the lakes bonus. It's also another 15% growth bonus that you can't get any other way. If anything, the lakes bonus is just gravy (when you happen across a 3 tile lake with a river running into it, you have possibly the best growth potential of any city in the game).

 

[Keejus]

It isn't 15% growth. It's 15% food. Which is a lot more than 15% growth, and also allows your cities to grow larger than any other Civ's.

 

[Horizons]

Really? I've actually never played the Aztec's more than a little bit, but, aren't lakes just far too rare on most map scripts to make much use out of that UB?

Same. Lakes are rarer than hen's teeth.

 

[Beef Hammer]

Thought their UB was lake OR river? Almost positive I built it in river city before... gonna go check!

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Aztecs are awesome.
Their ability might have been mediocre before the last patch, but now that the effectiveness is doubled it's very useful. It won't necessarily give you much more policies, but it will give you earlier policies and this can be a huge advantage depending on your choice (free worker, settler, general...). Also the Jaguars have good synergy with their ability because they allow for quicker exploration and barb killing and the floating gardens only get more useful as the game progresses.
If Tenochtitlan has a population of under 40 when you enter the industrial era you've made some big mistakes.

Edit: Floating Gardens is lakes OR rivers which makes it even better.

 

[AfterShafter]

Well, that 15% food thing does make it a lot more handy when I consider it...

But, it does come at an early game cost. Your city needs to be producing just over 13 food to equal the flat bonus from a water mill. As it stands, the water mill can be used to bolster a low food city and help it get rolling, and that's usually how I use it. The floating garden won't be as handy for making

It seems like the Floating Garden is going to make you prioritize naturally food rich locations on water rather than looking at the watermill as a way of digging some desert-iron-incense city out of a food deficit. So it'll change the way I position my cities... Heck, that's why I like playing the Iroquois. I'll give the Aztec's a try again in the near future methinks.

Does the floating garden give a production boost like the water mill?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Well, that 15% food thing does make it a lot more handy when I consider it...

But, it does come at an early game cost. Your city needs to be producing just over 13 food to equal the flat bonus from a water mill. As it stands, the water mill can be used to bolster a low food city and help it get rolling, and that's usually how I use it. The floating garden won't be as handy for making

It seems like the Floating Garden is going to make you prioritize naturally food rich locations on water rather than looking at the watermill as a way of digging some desert-iron-incense city out of a food deficit. So it'll change the way I position my cities... Heck, that's why I like playing the Iroquois. I'll give the Aztec's a try again in the near future methinks.

Does the floating garden give a production boost like the water mill?

I take it you never played Aztecs ?
Floating Gardens do everything water mills do.
They always give +2 , +1 and +15% and a +2 from lake tiles.
It looks like they wanted to overcompensate for making them underpowered in Civ 4 with their almost useless Jaguars.

 

[AfterShafter]

Haven't since the last patch, no, before which time their UA was *really* underwhelming and there was no production bonus on the watermill/gardens. Was just checking the Civilopedia online and it didn't mention the production bonus.

Yeah, that's an awesome building. Definitely going to give them a go.

 

[Keejus]

Trust me, floating gardens alone make Aztecs the second-strongest science civ in the game.

 

[I_qua_I]

What's really bad is that it doesn't scale with game speed. The kills should be worth more on marathon speed than standard. The unit costs are increased as well so it's not as if your opponents are pumping out 3x as many units for you to kill. The policy costs, however, are much higher so the amount of culture points you can rack up a game this way normally won't even put a dent in policy acquisition. I tried playing a game with them today - killed a spanish archer and got 4 culture, looked at how much culture I'd need to get to the next policy and it was more than 1,000. I was still in the ancient era and quit.

 

[Quimico01]

The floating garden seems really cool!, plus the culture from killing other units is great too!, think about it, at the beggining of the game it will certainly give you an extra policy or two (which can make the diference), just for killing some barbs you were going to crush anyway. Plus, whenever you kill those barbs, your Jaguar recovers its health and gains experience without having to wait to heal for turns, decreasing the cost of barracs. Becoming a friend with a cultured city state gives you +6 culture per turn, being at war with the Aztecs, means that you can get the same bonus killing a couple of units per turn and letting you be a perfect warmonger.