Barbarian Challenge #2

[Gwaja]

I am back with another barbarian challenge. This time, it will be excruciatingly painful and frustrating. But the fun is all in the challenge!

You are Shaka, who believes that when it comes to war and conquest, there is no equal. However, the barbarians, led by Diablo, have taken offense to this, and have decided to prove him wrong.

Be prepared to be swarmed by these nasty and evil barbarians non stop. Fortunately for you, you won't have to contend with any AI, as there is only 1 AI, and that AI is in no position to win this game. Contact may be possible, but there is absolutely no way to reach each other in decent time frame.

Obviously, the Great Wall cannot be built. Also, the barbarians have been given a huge boost to make this map extremely challenging. Have you seen the barbarians tech? Yes, they will actually tech in this game thanks to the massive boost I have given them.

There is a reason why Shaka was picked as the leader for this map. He makes this a tad easier to deal with. Please use his traits and bonuses to your maximum advantage and put the land to best use.

Again, I caution you that these barbarians are not joking around and are determined to destroy you! Oh, and one other thing... be very cautious when you approach Diablo. You have been warned! ^_^

Map Settings:
Vanilla BTS / No Mods Loaded
Deity @ Standard Speed
Duel Map Size (Fit for 1 AI + Player)
Pangaea / Low Sea Level
Huts On / Events Off
And of course, RAGING BARBARIANS!

Revision: Added a worker unit. Trust me... you will be thankful. ^_^

The goal of this map is to completely destroy ALL barbarians off the continent.

Good luck! You just might need it! ^_^

Starting Position:

 

[Tecumseh1]

Interesting idea! One problem, the game crashes when I try to load this save. I don't have any mods running, but I have blue marble and BUG stuff in custom assets folder.

 

[Gwaja]

Interesting idea! One problem, the game crashes when I try to load this save. I don't have any mods running, but I have blue marble and BUG stuff in custom assets folder.

Hmm. I am not all that tech savvy so I am not sure what is going on. I run with GOG version with the option to load BUFFY. This game was created without BUFFY loaded, so it was at vanilla state. I had no difficulty loading and running your save in vanilla state though. Maybe more tech savvy people can chime in and tell me what is going on so I can address this for you.

Anyone else having errors?

 

[chinemol]

played it with no issue. windows, GOG version, blue, bug. save in ....BTS/saves/single then just load

 

[Gumbolt]

It loads fine. Maybe you need the right mod? I am not using steam.

In terms of start settling on hills could be important here to fight off any early barbs? 1SW has river protection too.

Early archery or you likely die. Then see what monsters are waiting in the mist. Might try this at some point.

 

[aitkensam]

Spoiler :

Thanks for posting. Very fun challenge. I'm sure I was super slow but just at 325BC and Diablo attacked me out of the city and died to a sword. Wasn't expecting that!!! Now to finish off the city... and then go to bed 2 hours later than planned...

 

[Gwaja]

@aitkensam

Spoiler :

Nicely done. Diablo should be scripted not to be overly aggressive and mainly stay inside the city, as that is where he is most dangerous as a defender. But since you are rid of him, it should only be a matter of time to wipe those nasty barbarians out. I am happy you enjoyed it. How was the beginning rush like for you?

 

[antimony]

@Gwaja

Spoiler :

In my game it seemed any units besides 6 stationary archers could be baited out of his city (including Diablo). After I pillaged everything he would build archers but any above the first 6 could be baited out with a worker.

Also they don't tech sadly... They started producing swords but that's through the usual way barbs gain tech I think, which is if one of the regulars Civs has it there is a chance for barbs to gain it.

Anyway it was fun. Thanks for the map!

 

[aitkensam]

Spoiler :

I had a similar experience to antimony in terms of the 6 archers and barbs only getting to swords.

In terms of my attempts. Failed first time after settling 1W. Died the turn after hooking up copper. Second attempt I SIP to get the gold in BFC. Worked out much better. Think I survived the first archer wave with mostly archers then had axes and a healer impi when the spears arrived. After that it was never really in doubt, but it did take me a long time to slowly work my way across the map. Teched all the way to Construction thinking I would need catapults for Diablo. After he suicided, my stack felt somewhat overkill!!

Think if I played again I'd be tempted by settling 1NW. I'm also one of those who dislikes huts.

 

[antimony]

Spoiler :

I settled SW per Gumbolt's suggestion, teched Archery first (surprised how fast it is on Duel), grew on floodplains and improved ivory as soon as borders pop. If you switch to best production tiles at size 2 I think that was enough for 2 archers by the time the stream arrived. Then with BW and copper you're set.

 

[Gumbolt]

Spoiler Thoughts :

1 archer is enough to hold off first wave of attack if you settle on the hill. You quickly get CG3. Of course settling with gold gets you tech much quicker. Danger is no hill/river makes defences a bit tougher. I guess if you can settle a 2nd city east then the lack of hills might not matter. You gain 1 turn by not settling on a hill. 2 archers should be safe?

I wonder if using impi to pillage here will work early on? Not sure they would last long against axes. If the big unit leaves the city then that makes game winnable much earlier. At some point you just ignore the 6 unit batch of attackers and go round and attack the big city. I think you can easily build 5-6 cities here. Question of how to ramp up units most quickly and not lose units to barbs in the open.

 

[Gwaja]

@antimony

Spoiler :

Hmmm. I should re-evaluate the save further, as it really was designed to give barbarians more than their usual pattern of gaining techs. On my test sessions, I was able to re-create situations where they were getting techs not obtained by us or the other AI, even economic and religious ones. Clearly a sign I still have ways to go trying to modify scripts and etc. Maybe it just isn't possible with barbarians?

I wasn't sure how to approach in terms of making a super annoying boss. Changing Diablo into a unit like a Machine Gun where he could only defend would most likely have solved the issue, but I still wanted to leave out the possibility of him attacking out of the city on a rare occasion. Not sure how I would approach making him as balanced and as fair as possible while still being a challenge. Making him a unit past Longbows or giving him Combat promotions seemed going overboard. Maybe a Janissary? ^_^

I'd do exactly the same approach as yours to the letter. That riverside grassland ivory tile is too good to ignore, though protecting it from being pillaged can be a nuisance.

Thanks for playing. Glad you had fun nonetheless. How long did it take you to wipe out the city?

 

[Gwaja]

@aitkensam

Spoiler :

I always play with huts off myself. This time though, they were given to give players a small chance at gaining a free useful tech, **cough** Archery **cough** to sort of not discourage players when the wave starts coming around T16 or so. Did the included worker make any difference for you?

Settled in place... very bold move. I assume you put up Walls in your city? The gold mine was placed there on purpose to give players dilemma on where to settle. Without it, most surely, everyone would have moved to the westerly direction on a hill.

Unfortunate Diablo died like there too easily. Perhaps I should make a revision, changing him into something more powerful. I am just not sure how to avoid making it too unfair and overpowered. I wouldn't want to place something like a Machine Gun and expect people to beat this map without mindlessly pressing "Enter" just to get to at least Cannons.

 

[Gwaja]

@Gumbolt

Spoiler :

Through my testing on multiple different sessions, it was possible to lose with just 1 Archer on a hill city. 2 Archers on a hill city though, surely the safest way to go. If I did not place a free worker, it would have slowed things down a lot more going the 2-Archer route, as that would surely delay the copper being online.

Getting a 2nd city out of the path of the Barbarian invasion as early as possible is a good idea. Or maybe even towards their city on another hill, as I did, so that the capital doesn't have to worry about improved tiles being pillaged, which is super annoying.

That Barbarian city can be starved as soon as even 1 food tile becomes pillaged or even occupied. But using impis seem risky, as all the nearby tiles are roaded, and they will continue to churn out Axemen. I was unable to reproduce situations where Diablo starts roaming around outside the city, but if it can be achieved, luring him out and killing him in the open while attacking from the other side may very well be a good strategy for an easy capture. I am gonna test play some more with your Impi approach and see how things go with that.

 

[antimony]

@antimony

Spoiler :

Hmmm. I should re-evaluate the save further, as it really was designed to give barbarians more than their usual pattern of gaining techs. On my test sessions, I was able to re-create situations where they were getting techs not obtained by us or the other AI, even economic and religious ones. Clearly a sign I still have ways to go trying to modify scripts and etc. Maybe it just isn't possible with barbarians?

I wasn't sure how to approach in terms of making a super annoying boss. Changing Diablo into a unit like a Machine Gun where he could only defend would most likely have solved the issue, but I still wanted to leave out the possibility of him attacking out of the city on a rare occasion. Not sure how I would approach making him as balanced and as fair as possible while still being a challenge. Making him a unit past Longbows or giving him Combat promotions seemed going overboard. Maybe a Janissary? ^_^

I'd do exactly the same approach as yours to the letter. That riverside grassland ivory tile is too good to ignore, though protecting it from being pillaged can be a nuisance.

Thanks for playing. Glad you had fun nonetheless. How long did it take you to wipe out the city?

Spoiler :

I think around 150 AD. After getting enough Axemen to push back on the barb wave (and an Impi medic) it took time to get enough to the city. I roaded to it and eventually just built Impi to get to the front sooner. I took about 20 units to defeat the 6 archers. I only had 3 cities (capital, gold, then horses SE).

 

[Gumbolt]

Spoiler More thoughts and how it ended :

It's all about how to damage the main defender. If that one unit dies the challenge is pretty much over. If the unit won't leave the city you need a lot more attackers. Catapults will be useless due to it's first strike. They will obviously reduce all units to 50% health. HA are great against first strike units as they actually deal damage and are immune to first strike.

After I bombarded the city completely and attacked with an HA first it actually did damage to the big defender which eventually died to a War Elephant. At that point it was over around 225ad. I lost too many units trying to wander round map. Perhaps built too many cities too. 5-6 was overkill.

An end stack with 10-12HA a few axes and 10-12 catapults would work well. Maybe less need to bombard fully as long as the HA do damage to the main defender.

To actually win you would need to kill off Sitting Bull? I never got to meet him but I could see the culture.

 

[Gwaja]

Nicely done @antimony and @Gumbolt !

Spoiler :

AI is Genghis and he is completely blocked off. Game is considered won as soon as all barbarians are wiped out.