There are several reasons for the suggestions/ideas for a mod that Im proposing below:
From a purely game-play point of view, the Barbarians rarely have cities in the spots I want to use, either because of placement or distance. When Im playing a solo game, I have little qualms against WBing my way to moving a freshly acquired city where I may, but thats not an option all the time for all that play, and simply razing every captured city because its not well suited is a dangerous loss of resources and an increase to the AC count (unless you want that, then raze away).
Realistically, Barbarians exist because they didnt coalesce into large enough, common enough groups to make progress towards anything beyond a subsistence existence. Other than the odd charismatic war chieftain coming through and assembling a horde of disparate tribesman under a common banner, the Barbarians would much more likely be a chaotic, distrustful lot, unless a group of them developed a forward-thinking, progressive culture, which would actually lead them down the road towards civilization, not continued anarchy.
Here is my take on the matter:
Standard Barbarians
Loose Barbarians should still fall under Bhall, but should include all primary races (including Elves, Dwarves, Cuali/Mazatl-style Lizard-folk, and possibly Giants) among the units. The current old school Lizardmen should not be the only Tier 2 recon units, for example, and neither should Goblins be the only Tier 1s.
Loose Barbarians should not form cohesive Stacks of Death, but should instead move of their own accord, irrespective of the movement of other Barbarian units.
Loose Barbarians should not build cities, but can take them over. Unfortunately for them, anarchic Barbarians arent real good at keeping subjugated peoples productive, healthy, and happy (or all three at once, at least), so their captured cities would likely live in a constant state of Anarchy until another process takes over the city:
The Fog of War will sometimes generate a Savage Tribe, which functions in movement like a Barbarian Settler unit. Once created, the Savage Tribe will seek out an appropriate city location based on its racial flavor and nearby resources.
Savage Tribes that have not settled down are not listed as Bhall units, but instead as a non-affiliated unit that cant be attacked normally. A Civilization unit can move over the Savage Tribe, and then be able to click on either of two actions, Ask to Join or Take by Force.
Ask to Join runs through a random chance of them joining as a Settler, one or more Workers, or a melee, ranged, or recon unit (based on Barbarian tech level), or refusing the offer (which then locks out Ask to Join for that Savage Tribe for X # of turns). (The same Civilization unit also wouldnt be able to then select Take by Force in the same turn (cant activate two abilities in a turn normally), but another unit could separately take that action.)
Take by Force initiates a combat on the tile between the Civilization unit and the Savage Tribe:
After settling down, the Savage Village (working name) acts like a cross between the Tribal Villages (goody huts) and World Improvements in FF, and the Indian Villages in Civ4:Col basically:
Savage Leaders act like a cross between a Great Commander and a wandering Civilization Leader. They can be spawned randomly from Tribal Villages, lairs, and Fog of War. Savage Leaders can:
Fringe Civilizations
Fringe Civilizations are organized separately under the primary Civilizations, acting as AI Civilizations (even in normally multi-player games with only Player-controlled Civs). The Savage Leaders that converted them become civilization leaders with random traits (or, if someone wants to put together a long list of these Savage Civ leaders, with traits from the list). Similar to Decius, any Savage Leader can lead any race of Fringe people (an Orc leader could lead Elven people), and can be of any alignment (either by list or randomly, perhaps skewed toward evening up the number of Civs of each alignment). The Savage Village that was converted becomes the capital city.
Fringe Civilizations can either:
Thats all I have for now. Again, I havent started doing any modding yet (both in general and for this idea), and this might be too ambitious a start for a first-timer. Let me know which elements you like, disagree with, know exist elsewhere, are certain cant work unless , etc. I could definitely use some help.
- I dont like the idea that all Barbarians are somehow the best of friends, sharing space, gold, technology, and units.
- Theyre mostly Orcs, Frostlings, some Lizardmen, and the odd Savage Human (although I think that may just be Hidden Nationality units), but thats it. I havent really looked deeply into the Civilopedia text to see if there were particular reasons why Elves and Dwarves (or any other race) never went feral/native.
- My view of the primary Civilizations in FF is that they were nearly as bad as the Barbarians until a great leader appeared to lead them out of the darkness, seeing as most start with only a couple of units plus a Settler, and a handful of known technologies.
- Two of the strategy games I played in my 20s, Warlords and Age of Wonders, had separate, unaffiliated, capable cities filling up some (if not most) of the available space on the map (IIRC, Warlords didnt have Settlers and forced you to capture all of your other cities).
From a purely game-play point of view, the Barbarians rarely have cities in the spots I want to use, either because of placement or distance. When Im playing a solo game, I have little qualms against WBing my way to moving a freshly acquired city where I may, but thats not an option all the time for all that play, and simply razing every captured city because its not well suited is a dangerous loss of resources and an increase to the AC count (unless you want that, then raze away).
Realistically, Barbarians exist because they didnt coalesce into large enough, common enough groups to make progress towards anything beyond a subsistence existence. Other than the odd charismatic war chieftain coming through and assembling a horde of disparate tribesman under a common banner, the Barbarians would much more likely be a chaotic, distrustful lot, unless a group of them developed a forward-thinking, progressive culture, which would actually lead them down the road towards civilization, not continued anarchy.
Here is my take on the matter:
Standard Barbarians
Loose Barbarians should still fall under Bhall, but should include all primary races (including Elves, Dwarves, Cuali/Mazatl-style Lizard-folk, and possibly Giants) among the units. The current old school Lizardmen should not be the only Tier 2 recon units, for example, and neither should Goblins be the only Tier 1s.
Loose Barbarians should not form cohesive Stacks of Death, but should instead move of their own accord, irrespective of the movement of other Barbarian units.
Loose Barbarians should not build cities, but can take them over. Unfortunately for them, anarchic Barbarians arent real good at keeping subjugated peoples productive, healthy, and happy (or all three at once, at least), so their captured cities would likely live in a constant state of Anarchy until another process takes over the city:
- Razed,
- Reclaimed by a primary Civilization, or
- Claimed by a Savage Leader (see below).
The Fog of War will sometimes generate a Savage Tribe, which functions in movement like a Barbarian Settler unit. Once created, the Savage Tribe will seek out an appropriate city location based on its racial flavor and nearby resources.
Savage Tribes that have not settled down are not listed as Bhall units, but instead as a non-affiliated unit that cant be attacked normally. A Civilization unit can move over the Savage Tribe, and then be able to click on either of two actions, Ask to Join or Take by Force.
Ask to Join runs through a random chance of them joining as a Settler, one or more Workers, or a melee, ranged, or recon unit (based on Barbarian tech level), or refusing the offer (which then locks out Ask to Join for that Savage Tribe for X # of turns). (The same Civilization unit also wouldnt be able to then select Take by Force in the same turn (cant activate two abilities in a turn normally), but another unit could separately take that action.)
Take by Force initiates a combat on the tile between the Civilization unit and the Savage Tribe:
- If the Savage Tribe wins, the Savage Tribe is ejected to a random adjacent tile with an extra movement for one turn promotion, and Ask to Join is locked out for X*2 # turns.[*]If the Savage Tribe earns a withdrawal from the fight, they are ejected as above, but without the extra movement promotion.
- If the Savage Tribe is defeated, the Savage Tribe is either replaced with a full strength Settler or Worker(s), or a damaged melee, ranged, or recon unit (again, based on tech level), similar to captured Animals/Beasts.
After settling down, the Savage Village (working name) acts like a cross between the Tribal Villages (goody huts) and World Improvements in FF, and the Indian Villages in Civ4:Col basically:
- Savage Villages look like variants on the Tribal Villages or even the very primitive Population 1 cities of the civilized races.
- They do not have a border at this point, and do not interfere in the ability of another civilization from placing a city close to their location (but a Civilization cant place a city on a Savage Village).
- They do not themselves generate any regular Barbarian units, although any Barbarian unit could spawn there per regular such rules. Barbarian units may view Savage Villages as something to defend, similar to Tribal Villages, but arent more likely to do so. Defeating a Barbarian unit on top of a Savage Village does not destroy the Village.
- Any civilization unit can enter and explore a Savage Village, like a Dungeon or Lair. Results would be similar to a goody hut, but would not by itself remove the Savage Village. Instead, it would go into a reset like the World Improvements that act like Lairs, probably with a smaller number of turns involved. Civilizations with the Barbarian trait are more likely to get positive results from a Savage Village.
- Among the possible outcomes of exploring the Savage Village are:[*]The Village converts into a Settler,
[*]The Village pulls up roots and moves elsewhere (as a Savage Tribe),
[*]The Village offers to join your Civilization where they sit (player can opt out, with random chance for retraction of offer, convert to Settler, or move elsewhere), or
[*]The Village spawns a Savage Leader, set under a separate Barbarian classification.
Savage Leaders act like a cross between a Great Commander and a wandering Civilization Leader. They can be spawned randomly from Tribal Villages, lairs, and Fog of War. Savage Leaders can:
- Move onto a Savage Village (or Barbarian controlled city) and attempt to convert them to a Fringe Civilization (consuming the Savage Leader), or
- Move across the map and enlist Bhall units to their cause, forming a Barbarian Horde, which is either more organized/effective than a standard Barbarian Stack of Death, or the only way for Barbarians to organize a SOD.
Fringe Civilizations
Fringe Civilizations are organized separately under the primary Civilizations, acting as AI Civilizations (even in normally multi-player games with only Player-controlled Civs). The Savage Leaders that converted them become civilization leaders with random traits (or, if someone wants to put together a long list of these Savage Civ leaders, with traits from the list). Similar to Decius, any Savage Leader can lead any race of Fringe people (an Orc leader could lead Elven people), and can be of any alignment (either by list or randomly, perhaps skewed toward evening up the number of Civs of each alignment). The Savage Village that was converted becomes the capital city.
Fringe Civilizations can either:
- Use a single tech/building list for all Fringe Civs, with perhaps some racial variation, or
- Use a small number of tech/building lists, based around racial or environmental variation (e.g., one could be a desert-adapted Civ, similar but not identical to the Malakim).
- Gain Great People,
- Build World Wonders (and probably many National Wonders), or
- Found Religions, or build religious Heroes (but do gain the Religion in their city and the ability to spread it).[*]Either the first primary Civilization that learns the Religion technology earns the Holy City as normal, or the first primary Civ that has the Religion arrive in one of their cities ends up with the Holy City.
Thats all I have for now. Again, I havent started doing any modding yet (both in general and for this idea), and this might be too ambitious a start for a first-timer. Let me know which elements you like, disagree with, know exist elsewhere, are certain cant work unless , etc. I could definitely use some help.