Beneath the Jade Moon (pre-NES)

[Thlayli]

That's really impressive, Star. Submissions from Nutra and nuke should fill in a lot of the remaining space, too.

I imagined House Kalyesi as having some holdings on the southern bank of the Tyne as well. The white area between the Asaal lands and the Vein might be a good site for a larger monastery. It should be relatively pleasant on the southern bank, less vulnerable to raiders from the Godspires. Effeldoff's city is more of a town...though perhaps it's larger than I imagined.

I also considered adding a small market town in Tarquelin lands, along the road from Selswich to Nais. It would be due west of the Daughters if you feel like putting it in.

 

[Starlife]

Thanks Thayli.

And I will definitely expand Tarquelin lands, as well as Kalyesi lands -- as would make sense, given Tarquelin's status and power. I also want to make it more obvious that Tarquelin has the means and proximity to assist the Arhelms in their struggle (though isn't ).

 

[Thlayli]

Tarquelin's too cunning to waste his resources on combating savages when Dyre is the one to fear.

 

[Terrance888]

I would prefer Quacimica/whatever (to be honest only the Quaci part matters) to be the "core" of the house with Essilhome falling under the regent, whose name I will scrounge up. EDIT: Randon Ranasai.

Randon became High Chief and Baron after Erome died, and he ruled ably, if increasingly eccentric and refusing to hand power over Turros. Eventually, Turos forced Randon to capitulate (somehow, maybe I will eluciate through a story?) and gave Turos control over Quacikev, while Randon retired to the management of Essilhome.

Also, Bombshoo, North King, anything about holding or have held my babies hostage?

A note. Essilhome's various defense are shoddy, old, and mismatched. Walls from the days of Essil intermix with ancient Esurkish dirt ramparts, turn of the century towers with recent stout stonework. This is not to say ineffective, but looking at them gives one a sense of insecurity and unease with the non sequetor matching of defenses.

Quacikev, meanwhile, is newly fortified and faced by the Garasai-Quaciminis union, built with the newest techniques with an Esurkish-style grand hall dominating the keep.

 

[Starlife]

By the way Thlayli, I like how you framed the "painted raiders": people going towards Zek / kidnapped and either getting slaughtered or savaged ("savaged" here meaning "turned into a savage").

And as you said, once nutra and nuke finish their proposals, more space will be filled. I also plan to label vast forests and even ruins, which will fill up much of the rest. Not everything needs to be filled; it can be assumed that there are minor farming lords here and there, which I will label in the end.

I should mention a bit about mechanics, specifically when it comes to understanding that rather dense jumble of a map. Each retainer house you see (slanted dotted line, similar color scheme to the lord they pay fealty to) will not have stats. If you lose or gain their support, you will lose or obtain a certain amount of wealth and/or manpower (obviously), but I'm not going to have profiles for each and every retainer (there will be short descriptions, though, based on player submissions).

Anyway, I thought about having a "Confidence" stat for each retainer, but decided instead to be more descriptive and specific. Under player/NPC profiles, retainers will be listed by name and will have an accompanying short-sentence descriptor indicating their attitude towards their master. Example:

Godmoss; city council desires more autonomy
Tepesi; lifelong, loyal friends
Mabun; loose loyalty, somewhat competitive

Etc. These descriptions will be extremely brief, to make my life easier. The idea behind not having profiles or stats for retainers is to (honestly) make my life easier, which will in turn allow updates to come in a more timely fashion. I know that family members are important for this NES, so not listing every retainer's family could be poor form (also, we want retainers to be dynamic and fleshed out, and not just shells of support). There will be a Wiki, and it is hoped that this wiki will contain the current lord of each retainer, that lord's birth year, a description/history of the house along with other details (either taken from proposals within this thread, or newly written), and important family tree info. Therefore, interacting with retainers will not be a blind affair. Part of the fun of this NES is maintaining info on your own retainers via the wiki. Consider each and every one of you a de factor master of your domain, both in-game and out-of-game; your role extends beyond sending orders and writing stories, to the very fabric of the NES itself (worldbuilding).

I will be doing basic upkeep of independent houses and their associated wiki entries. I'll have that wiki up soon.

 

[Devercia]

I've been considering writing up a mythology in the spirit of Glorantha.

I do have a question regarding magic in this world. I know we kinda went with limited magic, but what are we talking here? Should it be based and executed via the Theo-mythology?

 

[Starlife]

I've been considering writing up a mythology in the spirit of Glorantha.

I do have a question regarding magic in this world. I know we kinda went with limited magic, but what are we talking here? Should it be based and executed via the Theo-mythology?

As for magic: OOC, everyone might as well assume that there is absolutely no magic in our world. "Magic" as we consider it, the "true" supernatural, etc., does not exist in this world. However, IC, magic exists. I hope this makes sense. One era's magic could be another era's reality. For example, the centuries-long meteor shower that has become so iconic to the Solemn Age would (to modern science) be easily explainable. But to the Aulesiri, it was fantastic and magical. To push it to the extreme: one could live longer through the use of nano or biological improvements (I'm not an expert; just making a point) -- to the Aulesiri, that would be considered fantastic and magical.

The mistake that we could potentially make with this thought process it that we need to explain everything fantastic and magical. Of course, I don't want to do this. I don't want to tell you all that the purity of the Luseysi bloodline is a result of complicated genetics, or that the original Luseysi lived for a long time due to an unknowing execution of modern science. We should treat everything in an IC manner at all times. Even the cosmos, the night sky, and things like that should be written about in the context of the society we play within.

In this context, will magical/fantastic things happen? Yes. Are there sorcerers running around shooting fireballs and conjuring lightning bolts? Absolutely not.

It is safe to assume that you, as players, will have little to no opportunity to "use" or "employ" /magic/ in any meaningful way. This does not mean that certain events that seem fantastic will not drive some of your story or events of the realm.

We can even view it simpler than the belief of modern science as an older era's magic. If we look at the middle ages or the Renaissance, or even the Baroque, many a king, lord, merchant prince, or scholar attempted to reconcile their faith with science. Take a look at the wunderkammer or cabinets of curiosity. During their time, they believed certain things to be true -- they would go so far as to fabricate truths in the form of mermaid skeletons or beastly taxidermy. Sometimes their observations were correct (mostly when it came to medicinal herbs; one herb might be considered "magic", and sure enough in reality, it has a medicinal purpose). I would suspect that such chambers exist in our world, as well (not in identical form, of course); therefore, I would suspect that a similar mentality exists (juvenile attempts to reconcile faith with science). In Renaissance and Baroque Europe, scholars who worked at cabinets of curiosities would even share their findings across borders, until like-minded conclusions were made -- essentially, the first international science committee. But they did it all in the context that man was above nature, not necessarily part of it, and that God played a role in everything and that His design can be seen in all, from the growth of coral to the pattern of a pine cone. Of course, the Aulesiri society is different with specifics, but similar aspirations or doctrine could be followed.

I appreciate the wondrous, mysterious, and hidden. That is "magic" to me, moreso than control of the elements or the walking dead (both of which, I'd like to note, could be accomplished with modern science... maybe ).

To use an example already given by a player: the painted raiders of Zek are an odd bunch. People are seen going towards Zek, and the never returning. They either die or become painted raiders themselves. What happened to the first expedition that eventually became the painted raiders? And so on. We don't need to know the "true" or "scientific" answer; in our world, that event is a form of magic: pure horror, and something terrifying to the populace, that cannot be explained and is surrounded in mystery.

If you are to ask me plainly whether or not mystical powers exist and that gods provide magic to some members of the citizenry, the answer is firmly a "NO". But if you were to ask me if the Aulesiri believe mystical powers exist and that gods provide magic to some members of the citizenry, the answer is firmly a "YES".

 

[Starlife]

Oh, and, we have a wiki.

 

[Devercia]

Excellent, that changed my perception totally. Wiki-time! (but sleep first)

 

[Luckymoose]

I thought low magic was going to be in this world? This world is now nothing but normal.

 

[Devercia]

That's what I thought too. Personally, I would not mind just enough to wet the taste of the characters and motivate the existence of their beliefs, in addition to being a caveat for the rare mystical matter of fact.

Vague portent dreams, drug induced trances, that kind of thing but no more. Observable and documentable magic? no. Shamanic mediums? maybe real, maybe fake. Basicly, reality + a little extra paranormal activity. Make Bigfoot-True-Believes not limited to conspiracy theorist crack pots, or in the case of religion, token worshipers.

 

[Luckymoose]

I agree with you.

 

[North King]

Just stick portents in your stories.

 

[Thlayli]

I wouldn't mind the rules of the universe allowing slightly fantastical events or things that are beyond mortal ken either. I mean, genetically speaking, the persistence of the eye and hair color through generations of imperial blood without incest is slightly fantastical.

But Starlife is correct to point out that the relevant utility of 'magical' happenings to our playerbase is effectively zero.

 

[Terrance888]

Mad "magician" attempts to lead crusade against Esurkish hordes, claiming prophetic visions of victory.

They get slaughtered. The victory was for the Esurks, not them.

 

[Starlife]

OK, wow. I think there is a grave misunderstanding about my post above. Probably my fault. The point of that post is not to tell you all that "low magic" does not exist or that fantastical events will not occur. It was more to comment on what a "mythology" or a reconciliation (between faith and science) doctrine might include, which Devercia was thinking about creating. My post was also to outline a clear difference between D&D-ish magic and the magic in our universe. Comments like this: "OOC, everyone might as well assume that there is absolutely no magic in our world." and this: "If you are to ask me plainly whether or not mystical powers exist and that gods provide magic to some members of the citizenry, the answer is firmly a "NO"." are more referring to D&D-ish magic. What I meant to say is that I don't want houses fielding armies of fire-breathing sorcerers, or houses fielding armies of sorcerers who can pull lightning bolts from the gods.

I thought I outlined that rather clearly in my post, but I guess not. So when Lucky is saying this world is now normal, I know he either isn't reading my post or following me, or I outlined things poorly.

As I said above, this does not mean that certain events that seem fantastic will not drive some of your story or events of the realm. I'm not saying that fantasy does not exist... I'm saying that magic in a very traditional, wizard-ish sense, does not exist. Apologies for not making this clearer.

And then I went on to outline perception of the fantastic (relating to Devercia's comment on mythology), how there is a difference between our perception and the perception of the Aulesiri in-game, and how that interesting dichotomy can be strummed. There are some things we can explain in our world that the Aulesiri cannot, and there are some things that neither us or the Aulesiri can explain.

I like to give this example: near Ambras, in Austria, there lived a village of cat people. They were extremely hairy and had strange eyes. Today we understand this as a genetic defect. Centuries ago, though, they did not understand it in that way. This is a reality. Not everything needs to be explained, though. In the world of Jade Moon, perhaps people transform into cat people if they enter a certain region -- complete with claws and teeth and a feral nature. This is fantasy.

Magic, in my opinion, implies use. It implies people studying magic, academies of magic, and then employing it in some concrete sense and on a wide scale. In this way, magic does not exist. But fantasy certainly does. And to the Aulesiri, use of magic by an individual might be a thing, but it is, very often, charlatan superstition -- and rarely a true thing. There are exceptions, of course: most notably, as I've said many times before, the utilization of the fantastic elements of the world (read: magic) was likely more common many centuries ago. The reason for this does not have to be explained to you all OOC.

I'd also just like to get you all thinking about what can be classified in our world by the Aulesiri of that time. Herbs and plants likely have some powerful effects. There are probably some real (but incredibly rare) "mythological" animals. Etc.

You guys are the ones writing the stories, and I trust you'll keep it subtle or "low magic", or as I would prefer to call it, "low fantasy". From what all of you have said in the last few posts, I think we are all on the same page.

 

[Starlife]

I've added a number of wiki entries for player houses. Not all, but some. Edit them as you like.

 

[Luckymoose]

What you are describing is no different than the real world prior to the Enlightenment. You're still saying no magic exists. That there is nothing beyond normalcy. Sure, we can write about magic and fantasy because the people would believe in it, but there /is/ none in this world, which is a change from the original proposal.

 

[Terrance888]

This is a reality. Not everything needs to be explained, though. In the world of Jade Moon, perhaps people transform into cat people if they enter a certain region -- complete with claws and teeth and a feral nature. This is fantasy.

Yep, exactly like real world, pre-enlightenment. No difference whatsoever.

What Starlife is saying is that:
1) NO Controlled Magic
2) Everything "has an explanation"
3) Fantasy exists, and is suitably fantastical

 

[Starlife]

What you are describing is no different than the real world prior to the Enlightenment.

It was more to comment on what a "mythology" or a reconciliation (between faith and science) doctrine might include, which Devercia was thinking about creating.

And then I went on to outline perception of the fantastic (relating to Devercia's comment on mythology), how there is a difference between our perception and the perception of the Aulesiri in-game, and how that interesting dichotomy can be strummed.

*

You're still saying no magic exists. That there is nothing beyond normalcy. Sure, we can write about magic and fantasy because the people would believe in it, but there /is/ none in this world, which is a change from the original proposal.

*sigh*

I'm not saying that fantasy does not exist... I'm saying that magic in a very traditional, wizard-ish sense, does not exist.

There are some things we can explain in our world that the Aulesiri cannot, and there are some things that neither us or the Aulesiri can explain.

In the world of Jade Moon, perhaps people transform into cat people if they enter a certain region -- complete with claws and teeth and a feral nature. This is fantasy.

Magic, in my opinion, implies use. It implies people studying magic, academies of magic, and then employing it in some concrete sense and on a wide scale. In this way, magic does not exist. But fantasy certainly does. And to the Aulesiri, use of magic by an individual might be a thing, but it is, very often, charlatan superstition -- and rarely a true thing. There are exceptions, of course: most notably, as I've said many times before, the utilization of the fantastic elements of the world (read: magic) was likely more common many centuries ago. The reason for this does not have to be explained to you all OOC.

You guys are the ones writing the stories, and I trust you'll keep it subtle or "low magic", or as I would prefer to call it, "low fantasy".

What I meant to say is that I don't want houses fielding armies of fire-breathing sorcerers, or houses fielding armies of sorcerers who can pull lightning bolts from the gods.

What isn't getting through to you, Lucky?